Great Starter Problems...

[wibble_puppy]

ah, cheers alex - makes all kinds of sense

[wibble_puppy]

Jack I have some stuff about the distributor which might be helpful, but to save me typing out lots of info (my ME is making me very dyslexic atm which means everything takes much longer than usual ) can you just first tell me whether the distributor has been reconditioned, and if so whether it was professionally done or done by eg the previous owner of the car?

cheers

wibble

[Willie]

Jack, something to do when it is running ok! reposition the fuel pipe from
the pump to the float chamber so that is as far away from the engine as possible, it is practically touching the exhaust manifold at the moment.
Question. Is the oil filler cap the solid type or does it hav a wire filter in it? I cannot really tell from the pics and your type of breathing means that the filler cap should have the filter in it.

[jackkelleher]

I'm going to answer your questions in reverse, just because it's easiest... The oil cap is indeed the solid type. I'll get that replaced. The previous owner of the car was a "professional" (though some of his work suggests otherwise, and we're fairly sure he was a trickster) and as the dizzy looks fairly new, I'd hazard a guess that it was done by him. I couldn't be definite, though, as he offered no restoration documentation (O how naive we were to buy this car...). Sorry if that doesn't help much. The connectors are grubby, you're right. I'll do all those. I don't think, though, that the cable from the battery is melted; I think it's an optical illusion in the photo. Unless I'm looking at the wrong one, it's fine in real life... The dizzy cap, which stupidly I have ommitted from the pictures, is quite new and the contacts are fine, though for safety's sake I rubbed them down anyway. When you say the carbon contact is not making good contact, do you mean not pressing hard enough? The spring seems good to my untrained eye. Is there a way to test it? Now, I've just noticed I skipped a bit, Wibble. The only thing that really got damaged apart from the wiring was the light switch (so melted I had to replace it). The fat brown wire to the starter was melted, and I suppose it's possible that this affected the starter switch- but it seems to be working fine. Also a fuse blew, but I've replaced that. The rear bulbs went (my theory is that they left the lights on for a very long time and the thing overheated. That's all I can think of...) but I've replaced those. The new battery I got out here, the old one being completely incapable of holding a charge (furthering my theory that they left stuff on). Right. Going back to where I was; I have now tried to start the car with two types of spark plugs, the ones that came over in the car and worked in England and a new set I got out here, which I have in the car at the moment (the old set was rather blackened and I feared for their efficiency til I could clean them off properly). I have proven that the new set sparks when not under compression, which I'm assuming means they spark when under compression too. I'll draw the petrol through, but it really does seem to be the right stuff in the float chamber (though of course I'll check). What's the best way to make sure it's raw petrol? Just colour and odour? I'm guessing an explosion test, though amuisng, is a little too risky...
Right, so that's everything you can throw at me thrown back. There are some good issues to check there, and stuff to replace... I'll get to work. I may not appear here for about half an hour, that's how often I check this when working on the car. Thanks for all your help...

[wibble_puppy]

Hi Jack!

the dizzy looks fairly new, I'd hazard a guess that it was done by him.

Mmm ok. Bless his cotton socks. You say "The dizzy cap, which stupidly I have ommitted from the pictures, is quite new and the contacts are fine" - when you say it's new, is that based on how it looks or on knowledge that it has been replaced? *flexes typing muscles*

I don't think, though, that the cable from the battery is melted; I think it's an optical illusion in the photo. Unless I'm looking at the wrong one, it's fine in real life...

maybe we're talking about different leads? I meant the one which doesn't come from the battery; the one on the right. Perhaps you could take a photo close-up of the starter switch (she says, putting her latest learning point into action ) and its cables?

The only thing that really got damaged apart from the wiring was the light switch (so melted I had to replace it).

This story gets more and more bizarre. Lightning??

The new battery I got out here

Cool, must be ok then - I assume you've double-checked it and all that

What's the best way to make sure it's raw petrol? Just colour and odour? I'm guessing an explosion test, though amuisng, is a little too risky...

I don't know of any way to check that petrol isn't contaminated with water It'll smell the same, explode in the same way, look the same...

Happy half hour

[Willie]

Jack, the only way to quickly check if your problem lies with the fuel is
to fill the float bowl with new fuel after COMPLETELY removing whatever
liquid is in there, because if there is water it will be lying at the bottom.
The fuel supply can be easily checked by placing the now removed top of the float bowl complete with petrol supply pipe into a container and seeing if the pump maintains a steady flow. A basic point but as the points look new have you wiped the contact faces with petrol? because points are supplied with a protective coating which should be cleaned off.
It is difficult but try to 'think simple'. If you have followed our advice then by now you know that the timing is set correctly, petrol is reaching the combustion chambers? and there is some sort of spark so with the choke pulled you should get some sort of start up. We have not discussed the Carburettor yet so some simple checks on the basics could be useful. if you remove the air filter assembly you should be able to lift the piston with a finger until it reaches the top when it should fall with a soft plop to the bottom. when the choke is pulled you should be able to see that the throttle also opens slightly if it is set up correctly.
A useful check is to remove the PISTON CHAMBER complete with the
piston and needle and observe that when you fill the float bowl to the brim(lid off) petrol emerges from the top of the jet inside the intake.
If it doesn't then you have a blocked jet! Re the carbon brush, if you are satisfied that it is spring loaded and not sticking in its housing it should be fine.

[Axolotl]

Hi, Jack,

I'm reading this with a sort of grim fascination. I know what a b it can be when an apparently perfectly "right" engine won't start. I used to have a Cortina that took it into its head to do this on occasions.

Usually, the only cure was to remove all the plugs, heat them up on a gas ring until they were almost too hot to handle, get them back in the engine, then voila, it would start first time...

Which leads me to my point.

How, exactly are you trying to start it? If you've got wet plugs, the engine is flooded, and won't start in that state anyway.

Therefore, could it be too much choke, or choke stuck full on, even though you are moving the control?

Have you tried just putting your foot right down, and turning the engine over with no choke? (Usual cure for a flooded engine).

When you say it just turns over, does it attempt to "fire" at all, or is it really just turning and not even trying?

Finally, I don't like the sound of the fried wiring. It may have taken out almost anything. Can you get, or have you tried, new condensor and coil? That's about all that's left, as far as I can see.

You have a spark, you have something you think is fuel reaching the cylinders (you could always just put a match to the wet end of one of the plugs when it comes out, away from the car, preferably out doors, if it burns its petrol.)

There's no reason to think the timing would have been altered between when it ran and now, so it should at least try to start.

But then we know that already. Sorry.

I'm out of ideas for now.

[jackkelleher]

So, I just completely emptied the float chamber and there was a tiny bit of water at the bottom, and a lot of sediment and other debris floating in the petrol. I cleaned out the bowl and jet, and the jet is sliding on the needle fine, though the needle has quite a bit of play with the jet removed; not a problem, I don't think.
-News Flash! Since I wrote the last sentence I refilled the bowl and MSK 743 (Minsk or Mini to her friends) has FINALLY STARTED!!!:D However, she cut out after about two seconds, and is refusing to start again. I'm leaving her ten minutes- maybe she's flooded, I don't know...
Would you know it? Dirty fuel. Well, watch this space; we shall see whether this is a permanent development or a false hope!

[jackkelleher]

Success! She lives! And thank you eveyone for all your help; she's sounding healthier than ever before! Running nicely, ticking over beautifully, but the brakes feel a bit stodgy... :EVIL:
It's been great having you giving me advice, and it's not over yet- I still have the wipers to sort out (hence the wiper photo posted) but I'll do that on a new topic...

[wibble_puppy]

Hey! fantatic news jack - congratulations - you've certainly earned that happy moment

[jackkelleher]

I kind of feel sorry that I made all of you work so much for this when the answer was quite so simple, but I comfort myself with the fact that a) I will always know what's wrong in future and b) all this advice will help a lot of novices... I have a new discussion up now, people. If you still want to help a hopeless loss...

[toulky]

Ben reading yr war an peace saga with interest as have similar problem. Replaced the fuel pump in our minor as old one packed up turned engine over started first time..... Covered car and went away job done. Following week wife goes to garage comes back saying car (her baby) wont start..... Tried it no good. Recharged battery removed each plug plugs looked wet smelt of fuel checked each one sparking OK but car not starting. Plugs new, distributor OK with new cap, timing not changed still will not start. Pulling hair out guess I have to check for dirty fuel altho did not buy from Tesco........wish me luck......

[ColinP]

Jack,

Well done, I've been following this at fifth hand as well! (everyone else seemed to be managing it quite well - so I didn't jump in!)

Unfortunately water in petrol is a nightmare 'cos it doesn't mix and the water is heavier - and guess where the fuel pipe is in the fuel tank (obviously at the bottom so you can get all the fuel out!)

You may need to revove the fuel from the tank and then remove the tank from the car to dry and clean it completely...

Toulky, there's no need to worry about the tesco/morrison petrol The additive is silicone oil (anti-foaming agent). When burnt it produces a very fine coating of silica on the exhaust insides. Modern cars have an oxygen sensor connected to the engine management unit (to give the right temperature to the catalyst). Standard A engined Minors don't have this problem at all.

I wonder if I could buy several hundred gallons of "suspect" fuel at a discount?

Colin

[jackkelleher]

Well, the car runs now, but backfires and misfires a lot, especially at higher revs. The clincher for starting the car was replacing the fuel in the carb float chamber, and the rest seems to work fine... Although, could dirt in the fuel system be causing the uneven running?

[toulky]

Jack a suggestion although my moggy has same problem ie wont start if you suspect the fuel disconnect the fuel line to the carb and place into a suitable container. Turn over the engine to pump fuel into container and then have a look at result or syphon the fuel thru muslin to see if it contains any dirt dirt/debris.

Mike

[jackkelleher]

Turn over the engine to pump fuel into container

On all the cars I have experienced, fuel pumps whenever there is a lack of pressure and is independent of turning over- if thi is different on your car, that could be the problem you have! Just an idea.
I have checked the fuel, and (at least without filtering) it seems fine... Could too much lead replacement be causing the problem?..

[toulky]

Yep should have said turn on ignition to activate pump.......not engine its getting late here over the pond........ has yr engine been converted to unleaded fuel ?

[Willie]

Jack, it is pretty rare, but I have experienced a blockage in the small pipe from the float chamber to the jet . It only requires a small foreign body to cause problems. Otherwise you will have to go through all the standard carb. checks. Of course you could still have water in the tank!

[jackkelleher]

It hasn't been converted, and I run it on lead substitute...
I cleaned out the pipe, as well... How does one check rpm without a rev meter built into the car? That often seems necessary for the carb checks according to the Haynes Manual, my Bible...