Morris Minor Owners Club

Hmm ok I will see when back together with new Pistons. It would not turn with fingers using just the crankshaft end that the flywheel bolts too, not full revolutions. Only when crank at 'favourable' angle if that makes sense?

Yes crank damper of course! Did my research.

Cheers,

Edd

Good! As long as it spins round nicely with the flywheel fitted, all will be well.

Hi all!

I seem to have a lot of cam end-float. The retaining plate looks like this:[frame][/frame]

There is no indication which is the wear surface, it even looks as if it has been fitted both ways round in the past! So I think I will replace it as a matter of course, assuming available.

Even fitting the plate the reverse way so minimal wear, there is a lot of movement. Way more than the .007 the manual says is maximum. Is there a position to measure with feeler gauges? Is there a potential obvious error I could have made?

Cam was inspected by engineers as OK, no work required.

Thanks,

Edd

EDIT

Using depth measurement on callipers from end of cam to cam plate, it's looking like .060 end play.

Edd
There is a thin white metal bearing/thrust surface that goes against the front of the camshaft.
The oil drain hole goes below centre left.
The plate does need replacing.
The plates are available.
http://www.minispares.com/product/Class ... lassic/cam thrust plate.aspx|Back to search

Phil

Thanks Phil,

I will order one, must have overlooked it as a wear part.

However I am assuming that the bearing surface will not sit proud on the new plate, and take up all the cam slack?

This photo attempts to illustrate how far back the front cam bearing is from the front engine plate:



So a flat plate will still leave plenty of play.

I have tried swapping back to the old oil pump, this made no difference. When the cam is pushed firmly against the oil pump, the centre bearing lobe of the cam is not central within the bearing, but is more towards the pump. Is this normal?

Otherwise I suppose I'll have to remove the cam and see if the rear thrust face has worn away .050!!

Thanks,

Edd[frame][/frame]

Edd
The oil pump has no bearing on the fore and aft play of the camshaft.
The only contact is rotational - that is between the pump drive shaft and the camshaft which can be pin (original), spider drive or slot.
The camshaft is held in position by the camshaft plate which is sandwiched between the cam sprocket and the front face of the camshaft.
There is no facility to adjust the clearance but the cam sprocket can be machined if so desired to reduce or increase clearance if not within tolerance.
With all the engines I have built or reconditioned I have never had to machine the cam sprocket.
Phil

Thanks Phil,

So if I have understood correctly (which lets be honest, is not always first time), tightening the cam sprocket onto the cam shaft essentially pulls the shaft forwards in the engine, hence the deep slot in the oil pump to allow for this movement? Surely this means that, just as there is rotational contact between the cam and the cam plate, hence the bearing surface, the cam sprocket must also rub on the outer side of the cam plate?

I did not put the cam sprocket on, I assumed that the cam sat against the oil pump at the back and the cam plate at the front.

At least the cam plate is getting replaced now! When it arrives I will fit, then fit the cam sprocket and measure the end float at that point.

Please let me know if i have missed the point...

Thanks,

Edd

You must have the cam sprocket on to check the end float. The oil pump has no bearing on this as Phil has said - the cam is 'trapped' between the sprocket and the triangular plate.

Thanks BMC,

Probably a good thing I made this mistake as to be honest if I had refitted the old plate and the clearances had been OK I would have just gone with it. It is pretty worn, new one on the way.

Phil, regarding your pointing out the oil hole position, the plate will actually only fit one way, the spacing of the bolt holes is not equilateral so it would be 'almost' impossible to do it wrong!

Thanks again,

Edd

I know but to be absolutely sure I pointed out the position of the oil drain hole - which incidentally is there to allow oil to bleed onto the timing chain & sprockets as there is no other way of getting oil onto it.
Because the camshaft is turning the distributer drive shaft through a worm drive the thrust generated on the camshaft is always forward and that is why you only have the white metal bearing surface on the face of the plate facing the front face of the camshaft.
In theory the cam sprocket should not rub against the non white metal face of the cam plate but in reality it does occasionally but only very lightly.
Phil

Does anyone know if the cork main bearing cup (sump) oil seal is the same dimensions as the cork rocker gasket? They look incredibly similar, possibly the sump seal is very slightly fatter, unless mine has swelled a touch from the grease.

I ask as I misread the workshop manual, the illustration suggests 'make sure seal housing does not stand above sump face' which I read as cutting the cork seal flush with the sump face. I now realise that this will not seal effectively. Should it be 3.2mm proud of the sump face, or the moon shaped seal housing? Pictures attached.

Bit annoying as I am ready to crack on and get it all together but do not now want to wait for new cork seals!!

Many thanks

Edd

[frame][/frame]

[frame][/frame]

Edd,
I have never been able to get the cork seals to seal properly without adding silicone sealant. I believe you should cut them so they are about 1/4" proud of the seal housing - too much left over, and the cork will keep the sump standing proud from the block, letting oil run out. I once cut them 1/4" proud of the flange, and the sump stood proud from the block.

If the cross section dimensions of the cork rocker cover gasket are the same as the sump cork gasket then I would use a section of the cork rocker cover gasket
The way to fit them is to soak them in oil overnight and then trim to size if required.
There is absolutely no need to use sealant on this cork seal.
BMC never did and neither have I.
Do the job properly and you will never have the cork seal leak or weep oil.
Phil

I remembered about Moss! Only a 20 min cycle from me in Feltham.

They sell pre-shaped cork seals for an extortionate price, £2.80 odd each.

On fitting they required a very small amount trimmed off each, quite tricky to get a clean cut with cork. New razor blade required.

I have gone for 3.2mm from the the sump surface. Time will tell.

I have not soaked them in oil as the workshop manual didn't suggest that, just greased them. Hopefully it'll be ok.

Thanks,

Edd

Edd
Grease will be fine.
Fitting dry is when problems arise as the cork cannot then easily centralise and form itself in the groove.
Whilst the manual does not say about soaking in oil it is accepted practice to soak cork gaskets and felt seals in oil before fitting.
Copper / asbestos head gaskets were always soaked in a water filled tray so as to allow the gasket to compress when torqued down.
There are lots of instances in the BMC manual where specifics are not mentioned but are learnt from experience in the motor vehicle workshop environment.
Phil

Thanks Phil!

I do remember reading about it when browsing the forum but I had forgotten, and then no mention in workshop manual. Does that apply to all cork gaskets ie thermostat?

Could someone please confirm which way round the oil thrower goes? Is it Convex to FRONT OF ENGINE or facing me as I am looking at the REAR of the engine?

[frame][/frame]

Convex to front of engine, as pictured makes sense to me.

Thanks!

Also, obvious I'm sure...

[frame][/frame

Correct?

The oil thrower has an "F" for front stamped on it.
I don't use the cork sump seals-the rubber ones I find a lot better.
Regards
Declan[frame][/frame]

The correct oil thrower for your application has the letter 'F' stamped on it and that goes towards the front.

Your seal is the wrong way round - the lip with the spring tensioner should be towards the cam gear.

As regards the thermostat housing gasket I tend to use the later paper type gasket which I always grease.
The original cork thermostat gasket can be given a smear of grease but if too much grease/torque applied to the nuts the gasket will slip out of place.
Phil

Thanks all,

I was confusing myself in that the timing chain is at the front of the engine! For some reason I was sure it was the back. So the F is obvious now!

The timing cover oil seal is not pressed in so I will reverse it.

I will order a paper thermostat gasket, I remember the last one sliding out all over the shop.

Cheers,

Edd