Morris Minor Owners Club

I'm much the same as you Andrew. No credit card, no loyalty card, ex-directory, and I 'tick the box' in anything I fill out. Result: no iffy phone calls, no junk mail.

I don't see the problem with being 'tracked'. Surely if we have nothing to hide, then we should have no problem with it. Like ID cards, I was against it on principle at first, but after thinking about it, the positives outweigh the negatives. It makes it more difficult for criminals and easier to buy/hire stuff requiring ID.

The tracking system to me is an absolute JOKE!!! I think it's one of the most stupid ideas I have ever heard of! Fitting electronic devices to everyone's car???? Madness. Then abolishing fuel duty and road fund duty?? I think road fund duty and fuel duty are OK as they are as they tax the people who use the road system more.

I travel 400 miles a week, so I SHOULD have to pay 10 times more than someone who only travels 40 miles a week. It's only fair. Fuel duty does this automatically. Also, if I'm driving a truck then I'm paying more road fund tax and fuel tax (total) than a car because I'm wearing out the roads more. The system works! Don't change it!

To reduce congestion, why not remove all the trucks and put freight on the rails & canals and just have smaller local 'shunts'.

Also, the questions have to be asked: WHY are these areas congested? WHY are the people using these areas?

Spread the 'attractors' out over a larger area, build large shopping complexes with plenty of parking away from congested inner city areas.

Congestion charging is not solving the problem. Investment and re-organisation is needed.

Fair enough, there's plenty of opinions out there re. ID cards. I don't have anything much to hide, but I do object strenuously to letting anyone with access to 'the system' know exactly where I am all the time, what I buy, to whom I speak - and I also object to being branded as part of a machine I don't necessarily agree with, support or feel any great loyalty to.

bigginger wrote:and I also object to being branded as part of a machine I don't necessarily agree with, support or feel any great loyalty to.

Ahh, right, well perhaps that's where the difference is then. I have great loyalty to the 'machine' of the United Kingdom, and as others have said, after travelling to other countries, there is nowhere I would rather be than here. But then again, I guess I'm a LOT more patriotic than most!

Yup, it takes all sorts! Apologies, BTW, for (I think) ending a sentence with a preposition...

"we have nothing to hide, then we should have no problem with it"

..."Then came for me. But there was no one left to speak out in my defence."

bigginger wrote:Yup, it takes all sorts! Apologies, BTW, for (I think) ending a sentence with a preposition...

That's perfectly OK Big G! We are not writing prose on here, just getting messages across. The average messageboard user does not have a degree in English (thankfully) although some users could do with brushing up a little!

"we have nothing to hide, then we should have no problem with it"

..."Then came for me. But there was no one left to speak out in my defence."

I see! Well, personally, for me anything is better than having the gangs of scum on the streets putting people in hospital, destroying property and terrorising people.........

Cam wrote:

bigginger wrote: That's perfectly OK Big G! We are not writing prose on here, just getting messages across. The average messageboard user does not have a degree in English

Neither do I - my only degree is in sarcasm and pedantry. I was just taking the err... mickey out of myself for occasionaly correcting other peoples English

The thing is, they'll also then use the system for monitoring your speed, which'll lead to massive revenue from small speeding offenses

If drivers didn't speed, they'd make no money from fines.

The media seems to have a real thing about how unfair speeding and parking fines are, and people shouldn't expect to be punished for not respecting the rules. Then on the next page they bemoan how 'the youth of today' have no respect. How can we expect those that follow to respect anything when the majority (yes I know I am by far a minority in this) feel they are able to pick and chosoe what they do and don't respect.

I dont agree fully with speeding fines, i think they should be on a scale rather than 3 points for 50 past a school and the same 3 points for 80 on the M1!! I do agree with parking fines though, if you are causing an obstruction by parking where you shouldnt you deserve to get a ticket!

woo wrote:

"You're setting up a system of surveillance allegedly to aid with taxation," said "This is incredibly invasive."

I agree, but then how many of you leave your mobile phone on all day. Effectively you're just as trackable

Actually, even if your mobile is off you can still be traced by it. The only way to stop a mobile broadcasting where you are is to wrap it in tin-foil, I wouldn't suggest you do this, as it will screw up all the settings

Taking the battery out would stop it too.

getting rid of the phone's probably progress - that's my choice

i wouldn't advocate tin foil hats but i take cash out from the bank rather than use cards, my phone's not registered and i don't use loyalty cards

Dan_Harris wrote:

woo wrote:

"You're setting up a system of surveillance allegedly to aid with taxation," said "This is incredibly invasive."

I agree, but then how many of you leave your mobile phone on all day. Effectively you're just as trackable

Actually, even if your mobile is off you can still be traced by it. The only way to stop a mobile broadcasting where you are is to wrap it in tin-foil, I wouldn't suggest you do this, as it will screw up all the settings

Dan, Once the mobile device is switched off, the transmitter is disabled and so cannot transmit your details.

Wrapping it in tinfoil will have no effect once it's switched off, and a minimal one unless it's earthed anyway.............

You won't screw up the settings by wrapping it in tinfoil as the settings are stored in non-volatile RAM and have nothing at all to do with the RF side of things.

Also, this 'tracking' is not as easy as it's made out. The system has to be waiting for the 'phone's details to be transmitted and has to take RX power readings from 3 base stations before it could calculate (triangulate) your position. This is even more difficult if you are on the move due to local radio channel fading effects and attenuation due to doppler shifts.

Basically, the 'system' only has a rough idea where your 'phone is located so that it can forward the messages to the approprate transmitters. It does not keep a record of your past locations, just the last known area (could cover several miles). Complete triangulation and tracking of EVERY mobile device would cause a horrific amount of network traffic and grind the network to a halt, not to mention messing up cellular channel re-use etc, etc. The police CAN ask the network to find the location of a particular unit but it's nowhere near as accurate in practice as people think.

The system naturally only updates your location every so often (15 mins or so I think) unless you are on the move. Ever heard that dit-da-dit-da-dit-dit through your radio when travelling along? That's your phone's transmitter keying (turning on and off) updating the system as to your current location after it's received a blanket call asking for a location update.

If theres one big thing i dont agree with its using a mobile without a hands free whilst driving. I still see even lorry drivers doing it and i dont think the police are cracking down enough on that. As for parking fines I agree with them but I think they should be more clearly sighnposted in more areas. I think that the speeding fines in this country are unfair and I totally agree with Terry. I wonder if classic car drivers will manage to pay cheaper millage charges. (like they dont have to pay tax ) or do you think they'll make them pay the same.

I think the proposed "pay as you go " is a silly idea. I hope public opinion stops it! and I certainly hope that it is not backdated to classic cars. My traveller is +ve earth and is staying that way. Maybe year 2000 on vehicles should have it, or should be fitted to new cars when the silly law comes in.

Imagine trying to fit this silly stuff to a 1902 Whyte steam car or the like, or a steam roller!!!

This is the worst government idea since the Poll tax. Badly thought out, and sneakily annouced just after the election.....

I see! Well, personally, for me anything is better than having the gangs of scum on the streets putting people in hospital, destroying property and terrorising people.........

As the Police admit, the problem isn't establishing a criminal's identity once caught, it's pinning them to the crime and location. Unless the victim is carrying a database linked card reader with them, and the criminal remembers to scan their card through it, these plastic spies will do nothing except make it easier for the law-abiding to be penalised.

Identity theft. That's another one. How can we prevent identity theft, they ask? How about gathering every little piece of a person's identity in one, easy to copy, plastic card?

As for the topic... !

If I were Transport Minister,
1. Build that super mag-lev train that they're talking about, and scrap the equivalent trains.
2. Road tax based not on engine size, but urban MPG. Eg, car does 70+MPG = £50/yr. Car does 50+, £100/yr... so on down to 10-19 MPG £1,000. It'd pay for those maglevs, and encourange people to buy smaller cars.

- Peter

Road tax based not on engine size, but urban MPG

It already exists - it is called fuel duty. Nothing they have announced will make much difference to the school run, however when it's school holidays most of the commuting jams seem to vanish ...

People seem to be avoiding one main issue - what about everyone who CAN'T use public transport to get to work?
Remote villages with a bus every other week.
Towns with a train station that was closed and then turned into a cottage.
Business parks miles out of town with not a single bus stop.

Last year a friend of mine lives in Rugby and got a Job in Leamington Spa after 3 months looking for work.
During that time, her car had failed its MOT on practically everything and she was in debt.
Therefore public transport: It took her an hour and a half to get to Leamington then 25 minutes walk to get to the industrial estate.
It's just a 25 minute journey by car, so I fixed her car and she was over the moon!

As the government proposals are so unworkable the only thing I can imagine is that it was done either:
1) to hide some bad news or bad statistics (eg avoiding any media debate on federal Europe)
2) to soften the blow when they bring in some other 'less extreme' scheme.

my company use celltrack to track certain members of staff via there mobile phone and it works fairly well

The problem with mobile phone tracking is that compared to GPS it’s not all that good. GPS is accurate to 3' (approx according the manual that came with mine). The scheme that the firm I used to work for only claims accuracy to 50'. If everybody is getting paranoid then don't look up. NASA will sell you the satellite photo of your house so imagine what they can see if they turn the zoom up a bit. Bottom line is if you don't like it don't vote for a party that supports it. As it’s not likely to be introduced in this parliament make sure you read the manifesto of who you vote for next time.