Morris Minor Owners Club

Back when my moggie was built racing rules said no belts at all! Far better to be thrown out of the car than be strapped to it......big steel box of petrol and fire. I'll take FIA rules with a pinch of salt.

I'm planning a threaded backing plate up in the B pillar, access through the trafficator hole. Remove the rear door to get to the bottom of the B pillar for a plate there (for the reel) and then remove the sill to get another plate behind there for the fixed end.

I plan to epoxy the plates in place, not for strength as such just to stop them dropping down should I want to remove the seat belt bolt.

I'm fitting seats from a modern car (with a bit of luck) which have the clip built in, so that is reasonably straight forward.

I will post pics with my progress!

philthehill wrote:Will any modification to the seat belt and/or securing points from that specified in the manufactures workshop manual be acceptable to the insurer of your vehicle ????????

Phil - the OP is proposing to do EXACTLY what is specified in the workshop manual, i.e. to fit the upper belt mount to the waist rail or window sill. This is as shown a few posts up in the photo as the standard position fitted in the factory to those later models with factory mounts, and the workshop manual indeed recommends retro fitting the mount in this position in those cars that were too old for factory fitted mounts. Regarding insurance, there won't be any problem as it is per the recommendations, but I have to say that if given the choice between pleasing insurers with an 'original' mount or having a better chance of surviving an accident with a belt that didn't wrap around my neck, I would go with the latter option at the risk of upsetting the insurer!!!

The OP has the fixing at the top of the 'B' post and whilst they are considering fitting the belt to the underside of the side window as per the wksp manual instructions they are also considering a drop bracket to lower the height of the mounting on the 'B' post.
My comment in the main was directed at those mountings referred to within this thread that do not conform with the manufactures specification even though they may be considered to be better than the manufactures specification. Retro fitting to the manufactures retro fitting specification as laid out in the workshop manual I would consider satisfactory.
The supposition may be that what has been done is acceptable to the insurer - I do not know whether fitting or using modified mountings for the seat belts would be acceptable to the insurer or not but I do would not want to be on the one that has their insurance withdrawn pre or post accident and that is not a position I would want to find my self in. Withdrawal or refusal of insurance can lead to all sorts of problems.
Phil

That's fair comment regarding the other mounting locations, but I think that most recently the OP MrIan stated he will use the waist rail, so I thought you were referring to that .

Here's a photo on how I installed mine.
Regards
Declan[frame][/frame]

liammonty wrote:That's fair comment regarding the other mounting locations, but I think that most recently the OP MrIan stated he will use the waist rail, so I thought you were referring to that .

Yes i'll be using the waist rail with a reinforcement plate to spread the loading behind as per spec. My comment about the additional bracket was a passing thought on how to use a mount halfway up the 'B' post as to be honest the 'B' post doesn't look to have any strength in it at all at half window height.
As for insurance the car shouldn't have seat belts in at all if original.
I'm moving my top mounting as I feel if indeed god forbid the belts were needed in anger they would do more harm than good.

Declan_Burns wrote:Here's a photo on how I installed mine.
Regards
Declan[frame][/frame]

Yep that looks the part.

Whilst seat belts were not fitted originally any fitted must be fitted in a fit and proper manner.
If as a result of an accident if it was proven that the incorrect type or style of mounting was a material cause of injury to the driver or passenger(s) the insurance company may decide not to pay out and any damages granted would become a personal liability.
Having worked in a Government department that had responsibility for road safety, policy and accident investigation I would be very wary of fitting or modifying anything especially seat belts that is not done to an approved standard or had the mountings load tested and/or examined by an competent or approved person.
Whilst the above may seem a bit over the top if the fitting is not done properly It may all come back to bite you.

Well as it is now in an incident the seat belts will bite me. So I either move the mount to the waistrail or I take the lot out and revert the car to manufacturers spec.

I am following this subject closely as I too am considering fitting seatbelts to our 1956 Series II, if we end up keeping it that is. (Ongoing dispute with dealer over miselling!)

My question is this. Could an insurance company reject an insurance injury claim, lets say whiplash, if seatbelts were added as it is classed as a modification? Would they want to see paperwork to show that the seatbelts were fitted by a professional?

I would say that if the seat belts were fitted as a retro fitting to the manufactures instructions/specifications that would not be classed as a modification but as an upgrade and I cannot see an insurer refusing to honour the vehicle insurance.
The point that I am making is that you just cannot fit seat belts outside the manufactures instructions/specification without considering the structural integrity of the bodywork in the area of the proposed mounting and the possible extreme loading to and around that mounting when the seat belt is used for its main purpose of restraint in a accident/shunt.
Whether the person fitting the seat belt is competent to determine that the mounting and its surround area are suitable and or adequate is for the owner of the vehicle to determine - but if the owner of the vehicle is aware or suspects that the mounting and the area surrounding the mounting is or may not be suitable they may leave themselves open to the charge of Vicarious Liability in the event of an accident.
I am not saying do not fit modern seat belts just make sure that it is done properly. It may be too late after the accident.

(When I refer to the manufactures instructions/specification that does include both the vehicle manufacturer and the manufacturer of the seat belt).

philthehill wrote:I would say that if the seat belts were fitted as a retro fitting to the manufactures instructions/specifications that would not be classed as a modification but as an upgrade and I cannot see an insurer refusing to honour the vehicle insurance.

(When I refer to the manufactures instructions/specification that does include both the vehicle manufacturer and the manufacturer of the seat belt).

Thanks Phil,
Any idea where I can find manufacturers seatbelt instructions? From what I am reading, there is no obvious location on a Morris Minor to anchor the seatbelt points where both strength and safety/comfort is acceptable!

The starting point is BMC wksp manual Pt No: AKD 530H - Section R34 onwards.
Phil

Great, found it thanks.

Workshop Manual Screen Prints:
https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/Zr8U
https://www.imageupload.co.uk/image/Zr8s