Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:28 pm
au was that offer for the OP or me?
Mick
Mick
Morris Minor Owners Club
Promoting the Preservation and Use of the Postwar Morris Minor
https://board.mmoc.org.uk/
fitting front disc brakes
Page 2 of 2
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:35 pm
Only £100 'Buy now' and less than 24 hours to go - they are a red hot bargain!
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:35 pm
If Don can do the job himself and wants to fit disc brakes; one of the cheapest ways is to fit the Bull Motif Marina/ital. disc brake kit at £329 plus VAT.
You do not need a servo, you do not need to re-route the brake pipes if not fitting a servo, you do not need a remote brake fluid reservoir just use the original master cylinders built in reservoir.
All the parts required with comprehensive instructions are supplied by Bull Motif.
The only extra job is to remove the top hat seal from the master cylinder and whilst it is stripped fit a new master cylinder seal kit Pt No: CBS145 @£5.95 plus VAT.
You may be able to do it cheaper by using a mix and match of new and S/H parts but having all to hand is much better and you can complete the job in one foul swoop.
You do not need a servo, you do not need to re-route the brake pipes if not fitting a servo, you do not need a remote brake fluid reservoir just use the original master cylinders built in reservoir.
All the parts required with comprehensive instructions are supplied by Bull Motif.
The only extra job is to remove the top hat seal from the master cylinder and whilst it is stripped fit a new master cylinder seal kit Pt No: CBS145 @£5.95 plus VAT.
You may be able to do it cheaper by using a mix and match of new and S/H parts but having all to hand is much better and you can complete the job in one foul swoop.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:26 am
And you can save a further £4 if you buy from ESM. 
If you go this route just check 'cos the ESM kit contains new hubs and new calipers. BM don't state that and I can't quite see from the picture on their site. Also you may be able to buy odd bits from the suppliers that you can't source secondhand like caliper mounts and stoneguards, I have in the past.
If you go this route just check 'cos the ESM kit contains new hubs and new calipers. BM don't state that and I can't quite see from the picture on their site. Also you may be able to buy odd bits from the suppliers that you can't source secondhand like caliper mounts and stoneguards, I have in the past.Agreed, I have been running discs for many years without servo or remote.philthehill wrote:You do not need a servo, you do not need to re-route the brake pipes if not fitting a servo, you do not need a remote brake fluid reservoir just use the original master cylinders built in reservoir.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:36 am
£1000 for disc brakes? did mine for less than £100.
alternator kit can be purchased for £60.
both simple jobs.
alternator kit can be purchased for £60.
both simple jobs.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:39 am
Would you mind giving us the info on changing to disks for under £100?Which parts and where to get them?
Thx
Mick
Thx
Mick
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:35 am
M25VAN
Not quite sure where the £4 saving comes from as the ESM Ford disc brake kit is £384.50 plus VAT against the £329 plus VAT for the Bull Motif Marina/Ital disc brake kit. ESM do not appear to list the Marina/Ital based kit.
The Bull Motif disc brake kit looks to use the Grumpy's style re-drilled and off set wheel stud Marina/Ital hub to give a PCD of 4"; and the top hat spacer with a new outer bearing.
I have used the Grumpy's Marina/Ital kit for many years and have had no problems with it.
New Marina/Ital callipers are available from ESM (Pt No: GMP001/002) as an outright purchase for £55.95 plus VAT per calliper.
The last of several S/H Marina/Ital brake assys (both sides) purchased by myself were £84 from 'e' bay and then had to recondition the callipers and fit new discs. Each calliper service kits cost £6.25 plus VAT (x 2) and the discs cost £22 plus VAT (x 2).
New Marina/Ital caliper pistons are available at £7.90 (x 4) each from 'e' bay.
New Marina/Ital brake hoses to serve the callipers are £14 a pair from 'e' bay.
So the costs add up even when you recondition what you have purchased S/H and I would at least as a minimum fit new seals to the callipers and new brake hoses.
Not quite sure where the £4 saving comes from as the ESM Ford disc brake kit is £384.50 plus VAT against the £329 plus VAT for the Bull Motif Marina/Ital disc brake kit. ESM do not appear to list the Marina/Ital based kit.
The Bull Motif disc brake kit looks to use the Grumpy's style re-drilled and off set wheel stud Marina/Ital hub to give a PCD of 4"; and the top hat spacer with a new outer bearing.
I have used the Grumpy's Marina/Ital kit for many years and have had no problems with it.
New Marina/Ital callipers are available from ESM (Pt No: GMP001/002) as an outright purchase for £55.95 plus VAT per calliper.
The last of several S/H Marina/Ital brake assys (both sides) purchased by myself were £84 from 'e' bay and then had to recondition the callipers and fit new discs. Each calliper service kits cost £6.25 plus VAT (x 2) and the discs cost £22 plus VAT (x 2).
New Marina/Ital caliper pistons are available at £7.90 (x 4) each from 'e' bay.
New Marina/Ital brake hoses to serve the callipers are £14 a pair from 'e' bay.
So the costs add up even when you recondition what you have purchased S/H and I would at least as a minimum fit new seals to the callipers and new brake hoses.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:52 pm
As a person who was very keen about Morris Minors 20 years ago and now with a rekindled interest I find this topic fascinating. I remember reading endless, endless articles about brakes in the club magazine all those years ago and nothing seems to have changed at all.
What exactly is wrong with the brakes in the first place? Why this obsession? It's an old car! Yes the brakes can fade if they get very hot going down a long hill. Agreed they need quite a strong press on the pedal but that's what they are. I just don't understand what all the fuss is about. If the brakes are well maintained and the car is driven with the respect due then there is no issue. I strongly suspect a lot of owners get "brake obsessed" because they have never driven a car with the standard brakes that are in A1 condition. There's no point at all comparing them to "modern" brakes. I have a modern car with huge ventilated discs that will stop on sixpence but I'm never going to try to reproduce that on my Morris. To do so is sheer folly and where does it ever end? Brakes better oh suspension no up to it and on and on until the car is so modified it isn't a Morris Minor any more.
What exactly is wrong with the brakes in the first place? Why this obsession? It's an old car! Yes the brakes can fade if they get very hot going down a long hill. Agreed they need quite a strong press on the pedal but that's what they are. I just don't understand what all the fuss is about. If the brakes are well maintained and the car is driven with the respect due then there is no issue. I strongly suspect a lot of owners get "brake obsessed" because they have never driven a car with the standard brakes that are in A1 condition. There's no point at all comparing them to "modern" brakes. I have a modern car with huge ventilated discs that will stop on sixpence but I'm never going to try to reproduce that on my Morris. To do so is sheer folly and where does it ever end? Brakes better oh suspension no up to it and on and on until the car is so modified it isn't a Morris Minor any more.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:57 pm
Can't argue with your reasoning.However keeping up with modern traffic(including trying to slow down)and trying to match the braking to a 1275 engine upgrade are quite important.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:15 pm
I learnt to drive on my first Morris, a 4 door saloon so perhaps my expectations are different. I then had my current car, a late convertible. It was my only car and I drove it for years. I lived in Edinburgh and drove back and forth through the Borders on winding, steep roads all the time. I even drove up to the Highlands skiing and back and forth to London. Although this was nearly 20 years ago all the other cars on the roads had far more advanced brakes. Anticipation is the key and it is certainly true that other motorists have absolutely no clue that the Minor needs more space to stop. I never came close to hitting anything (which was luck perhaps) but I did have 2 people run into the back of me....Having said that, I find other motorists utterly haphazard and thoughtless whatever I am driving! Morris Minor brakes are pretty good. Try cable brakes if you think they are bad....
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:10 pm
Had a few RM Rileys with rod rears!
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 5:45 pm
The old 7" brakes are a bit marginal - always were -although I managed to win a few local plot & bash rallies with them on my Minor. Then I pinched the 9" front drums and 8" rear drums from a Wolseley 1500 my brother had bought - (not realising it was rotten as a pear.....so it was off to the scrappy.. ) and never looked back. But I have said it many times - the later 8" front drums are perfectly adequate for sane Minor motoring with a 1098 Minor - and even a standard 1275 hardly makes any more power...so no great problem there either. The main problem with stopping a Minor is tyre/road adhesion! Not any brake limitation - even the 7" drums will lock the wheels.....wide/high adhesion modern tyres and wheels may justify better braking power. The 9" W drums provide that very economically.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:20 pm
Yeah, sorry for the £4 bit, just trying to save every penny.philthehill wrote: Not quite sure where the £4 saving comes from as the ESM Ford disc brake kit is £384.50 plus VAT against the £329 plus VAT for the Bull Motif Marina/Ital disc brake kit. ESM do not appear to list the Marina/Ital based kit.
At some point, around when ESM started selling the new "Marina" hubs, they started calling the Disc Kit a Mr Grumpy kit, shown here.http://morrisminorspares.co.uk/shop/pro ... 45f7a8d611
They also stopped reconditioning the calipers and only sold new Grumpy Marina ones.
Interesting what you say about the Bull Motif hubs being redrilled. It is hard to see from the picture on their site but they look new like the ESM hubs which are not re-drilled.
As always I like the way you take the time to reference and detail items with part numbers and links etc. Very helpfull.
I only swapped to discs after driving through a deep ford and trying to use the brakes afterwards.svenedin wrote: What exactly is wrong with the brakes in the first place?
I'm not against Wolseley/Riley brakes, I helped to liberate a set a few weeks ago. 
I'd love to drive a car with them on to see what they feel like.Drums and discs can live together in harmony, although not on the same vehicle.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:11 am
Well that's certainly nowhere near £1000 no matter who you get them from.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:41 am
The cost of labour if undertaken by a reputable garage has not been taken into account with the above calculations and at say £70 per hour the final cost will soon reach the £1000 mark especially if problems are encountered with removing the master cylinder.
I have driven Minors both with the 7" and 8" brakes, Wolseley 1500s with the 9" brakes and Minors with the huge Riley 1.5 brakes and I have to say the Riley 1.5 brakes were the best when fitted to the Minor and of course are a real period modification.
One of the down sides with fitting the Riley 1.5 brakes is the weight of the drums which increases the un-sprung weight considerably.
As regards weight of the disc brake assys - when the original Ford conversions came available I compared the weight of the Marina/Ital assys and the Ford assys and the Ford came out heavier so stuck with the Marina/Ital set up.
Regarding the Bull Motif hubs. The ESM hubs are not Marina/Ital but completely new assys machined to take specific bearings. You may be right about the Bull Motif hubs as taking a magnifying glass to the parts kit illustration the top hat spacer does not appear as part of the disc brake kit. But as you say the photo is not clear to confirm either way.
No doubt someone on here will put us right.
I have driven Minors both with the 7" and 8" brakes, Wolseley 1500s with the 9" brakes and Minors with the huge Riley 1.5 brakes and I have to say the Riley 1.5 brakes were the best when fitted to the Minor and of course are a real period modification.
One of the down sides with fitting the Riley 1.5 brakes is the weight of the drums which increases the un-sprung weight considerably.
As regards weight of the disc brake assys - when the original Ford conversions came available I compared the weight of the Marina/Ital assys and the Ford assys and the Ford came out heavier so stuck with the Marina/Ital set up.
Regarding the Bull Motif hubs. The ESM hubs are not Marina/Ital but completely new assys machined to take specific bearings. You may be right about the Bull Motif hubs as taking a magnifying glass to the parts kit illustration the top hat spacer does not appear as part of the disc brake kit. But as you say the photo is not clear to confirm either way.
No doubt someone on here will put us right.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:51 pm
any more info on this?ampwhu wrote:£1000 for disc brakes? did mine for less than £100.
alternator kit can be purchased for £60.
both simple jobs.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2015 4:25 pm
Over the last couple of years I have bought at least four S/H Marina/Ital disc brake set ups (that is both sides) and only managed to make up one serviceable set from the four. There were some useable parts left over from the other three sets thankfully. The reoccurring theme was sticking/seized calliper pistons and when stripped the callipers/pistons were found to be only fit for the scrap bin.
Luckily they came with the Marina/Ital steering swivels from which I extracted the Marina/Ital stub axles for use in Minor uprights.
Unless you are extremely lucky I would be very surprised to find/obtain a S/H Marina/Ital disc brake set up for under £100 that did not require refurbishment work being carried out.
Unless you know what you are doing in re-furbishing brake components whether drum or disk I would go for new every time. It is no good that when you want the brake to work effectively they do not
Phil
Luckily they came with the Marina/Ital steering swivels from which I extracted the Marina/Ital stub axles for use in Minor uprights.
Unless you are extremely lucky I would be very surprised to find/obtain a S/H Marina/Ital disc brake set up for under £100 that did not require refurbishment work being carried out.
Unless you know what you are doing in re-furbishing brake components whether drum or disk I would go for new every time. It is no good that when you want the brake to work effectively they do not
Phil
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:59 pm
An old post but still relevant todayphilthehill wrote: ↑Sun Sep 28, 2014 8:41 am The cost of labour if undertaken by a reputable garage has not been taken into account with the above calculations and at say £70 per hour the final cost will soon reach the £1000 mark especially if problems are encountered with removing the master cylinder.
I have driven Minors both with the 7" and 8" brakes, Wolseley 1500s with the 9" brakes and Minors with the huge Riley 1.5 brakes and I have to say the Riley 1.5 brakes were the best when fitted to the Minor and of course are a real period modification.
One of the down sides with fitting the Riley 1.5 brakes is the weight of the drums which increases the un-sprung weight considerably.
As regards weight of the disc brake assys - when the original Ford conversions came available I compared the weight of the Marina/Ital assys and the Ford assys and the Ford came out heavier so stuck with the Marina/Ital set up.
Regarding the Bull Motif hubs. The ESM hubs are not Marina/Ital but completely new assys machined to take specific bearings. You may be right about the Bull Motif hubs as taking a magnifying glass to the parts kit illustration the top hat spacer does not appear as part of the disc brake kit. But as you say the photo is not clear to confirm either way.
No doubt someone on here will put us right.
I have Riley 1.5 drum brakes. I'm keen on keeping un-sprung weight down as much as possible. Do you know the difference in weight between disc brakes and Riley 1.5 drum brakes?Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:20 am
Unfortunately I do not have a set of Riley 1.5 front brakes to weigh. If I remember correctly there was not much difference between the overall weight of the Marina disc brake set up and the Riley 1.5 brakes but there was a noticeable difference in overall weight between the Marina and the Ford disk brake set up. Again if I remember correctly the difference was 7lb. The additional weight being in the Ford set up.
There was/is a considerable difference in weight between the Minor 8" drum brakes and the Riley 9" drum brakes. Most of that weight difference was concentrated in the Riley 9" drum.
There was/is a considerable difference in weight between the Minor 8" drum brakes and the Riley 9" drum brakes. Most of that weight difference was concentrated in the Riley 9" drum.
Re: fitting front disc brakes
Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 3:25 pm
Thanks Phil. Invaluable info & experience and much appreciated.