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Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 pm
by David W.

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:48 pm
by bmcecosse
Although that table looks ok (but I still think 1.25" for inlet valves - what size are yours? ) - take care with anything Calver comes up with........ :roll: :cry:

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:38 pm
by David W.
The ones in there now (and it's back together and running by the way) are 1.212 if I remember what the shop told me. Sounds like they started out as 1.25.
How does 112 GBP sound for a 940 head?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/161042286579?ss ... 1423.l2649

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:11 pm
by bmcecosse
Well - at first glance, excessive - but then reading through, it has been worked on - they don't say if they have also skimmed it to make up for the metal skimmed from the chamber walls - so check on that. You would also want the exhaust valves to be slightly 'sunk' to clear the block on a 1098. You need 320 thou from head face of valve to face of head. And - is that price inclusive of valves etc (I suspect not).... I would keep the standard size exhaust valves (29mm) and if for use with a 1098 also the standard inlets (33mm) . memory coming back now - 295 inlets are 1.21 or so as standard - the 1.25 was a slightly larger valve that could be fitted without causing any problems.

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:11 pm
by David W.
Well, I'll be lucky to see a new head any time before Christmas.

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:11 pm
by bmcecosse
Write a letter to Santa......... :D

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:20 pm
by David W.
I'm a retired Postman, I know where those letters go.
I'm back to my original problem of a knocking sound. I've had months of smooth driving, then recently came the knocking. Here's someone else's youtube of exactly the same sound. The comments at the end suggest the timing chain, but that doesn't make sense (at least to me.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3vBlV7gu4E
I dropped the pan, and found nothing that looked unusual with the bearings.

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:37 pm
by bmcecosse
To me - that noise is very clearly a big end knocking like hell.........

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:59 pm
by David W.
That's what I expected to find. Everything looked nice and felt tight. I guess I'll go back in and take measurements.

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2013 12:18 am
by bmcecosse
Could be a broken crankshaft....I seem to remember it did sound a bit like that..... :cry: :roll:

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:07 pm
by David W.
OK, engine is out and upside down on a bench.
All journals, main and big end, are nice and shiny with no sign of wear. All bearings show minimum wear. Clearances measure (plastigauge) .002 inch for mains and big ends.
Thrust bearings show minimum wear, and there is no detectable movement fore and aft.
Where do I look next?
Could it be anything with the flywheel and/or clutch?

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:03 pm
by bmcecosse
Hmmmm -and I assume the crank is not broken..... Well - cam followers/loose flywheel/and by all means have a look at the timing chain although I rather doubt.....

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:13 pm
by David W.
The crank came out in one piece. To make that noise it would have had to be flopping around. It also makes a nice ring when tapped all along its length, no sour notes.
I don't think the flywheel bolts were torqued. They unscrewed with little resistance using a short wrench. The locking tabs were in place, so the bolts couldn't back off. Remember there were no noises for a few hundred miles, and then noises just a few miles ago.
It didn't dawn on me that the bolts were looser than expected, so I didn't do a thorough inspection. That will have to wait till tomorrow.
I'll also be inspecting the followers tomorrow.
The timing chain had a little slack, and I'll do a preemptive replacement anyway.
What's your prescription for bearing shells, reuse or replace?

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:52 am
by bmcecosse
The experts will say always fit new shells - but I think it really depends - let's see pictures ! Flywheel bolts should be TIGHT. There isn't a lot that can make a 'knocking' noise - so you really do need to look for something loose. I did have a Mini engine once that snapped the (duplex) sprocket on the crankshaft...so odd things can happen.

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:10 pm
by IslipMinor
Was the front pulley tight before you took it off? If loose, they can give quite a loud knocking sound.

Flywheel bolts should be torqued to 40 lbf. ft. and the front pulley to 70 lbf. ft.

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:54 pm
by bmcecosse
Funnily enough -i was just going to ask about the front pulley too - are the rivets loose?? Any cracks in it? Was the pulley loose on the crank nose?

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:46 pm
by David W.
Here come the pictures.
The front pulley inspected well, and was a firm fit. It took a little levering to remove.
The only thing my autopsy showed was possibly a loose flywheel. This is based on the untorqued bolts, and the markings of one (and only one) bolt. I'm hard pressed to visualize how the loose flywheel would have caused the sharp, rhythmic tapping that I heard.
Another longshot is the mechanical fuel pump. When turning the cam by hand, I got a slight tapping noise.
The rebuild will start soon. (I'm waiting for a ribcase transmission that should arrive today.)
I'm going to replace the bearings.
I've ordered a new electric fuel pump.
The transmission is a "rebuildable core."
I have to take it slow, to spread out the damage to the credit card.[frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame]

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:53 pm
by IslipMinor
All the shells look fine, but is that a reflection in No. 1 cap bearing shell, or a mark on the shell itself? Nothing that would cause any knocking is evident from them.

What is the oil filter in the picture - is it attached to the block? It doesn't look like a standard 948 one. Do you have a picture of that side of the block?

Can you measure the crankshaft journals? That way we can make sure that there is no significant wear. In particular, what is the big-end (crank pin) diameter?

A mechanical fuel pump was never fitted to a Minor - it was always electric, so the engine may have started off life as an 'Austin'. On the exhaust side of the engine what does it have as a size indicator on the block at the front, underneath the front tappet cover?

The cam followers do not look very good, what do the cam lobes look like? If the lobes are good, then might be worth replacing the followers (again nothing that will cause/explain the knocking).

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:34 pm
by MarkyB
Another long shot is the mechanical fuel pump. When turning the cam by hand, I got a slight tapping noise
I think that's the problem then.
Why does it knock?
There should be quite a thick spacer between it and the block I think, is it missing?

Re: Valve job on 12G295

Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:49 pm
by David W.
That smudge with a red tint is the residue of the plastigauge.
I did measure all the journals, and they all measured consistent with the spec in the maint manual less the .010.
they all were within .001 of each other, and showed no out of round. I can't find my notes, so I don't remember exactly what they were.
It is an Austin engine. I bought the car from "the bugeye guy" who deals in Sprites. He said he replaced the original engine for oil leaks.
As for the mech pump, yes I have the spacer. There is clearance between the lobe and the arm at the end of the stroke. It could be making the noise, but again, There was just too much noise from such a little thing.
When it goes back together, I'll be back on the electric pump.[frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame][frame]Image[/frame]