Morris Minor Owners Club

swithland wrote:Seems like there is no common sense in these government departments.

At least we now know this problem isn't restricted to the UK

Really do hope you get it sorted soon though.

I think it's totally OTT. I hope you get it sorted once and for all.
Regards
Declan

Just spoken with the Chap at the Transport Department again to chase up on the approval for the disc brakes upgrade. He said he would get back to me by close of business today.... thats in half an hours time !! Ive done my homework and saved a cart on a UK moggy shop website for a complete new brake system with 8" drums etc for the front end including all new pipes, hoses, bearings etc etc if by any chance the Government refuse to allow me to keep the discs conversion. The only thibnk I couldnt find on the shop were the snail shaped adjusters....

Problem is that I dont think I would have them here in HK by Wednesday and even if they do arrive, its a tough job to reinstall the old brake system in one day. Will probably have to forfeit the 60 quid MOT cost that ive had to pre-pay for the Thursday retest and get on with the job next week if I have to do it.

I spoke with a British chap that owns a garage in Ap Lei Chau in Hong Kong. He said that he imports cars quite frequently for clients in HK. He told me there is no way of getting approval for the seat belt anchorages and any testing conducted in HK would trash the car. He said that the only way is to remove the rear seat belts altogether, then MOT as a 2 seater car. Then the car will be registered as a 2 seater and I will by law only be allowed one passenger ( in the front ). The back seat will have to remain empty. So that means I cant take my family out in the car.......ever Now thats really depressing and the most annoying, stupid, unintelligent, ridiculous thing ever. He did however say that the chances of getting pulled up by a copper in HK are ultra slim ( which is true from my past experience in my modern day car ) and that even if I were to be pulled up, the policeman would probably not notice that it is registered as a 2 seater considering there is a nice comfy rear seat in the car.

I still have one last long shot possibility which im going to try out on the Government tomorrow afternoon. If that does not work, then im going to have to register the car as a 2 seater......and I will take the risk of being nicked by the police.....and if im in court having to defend myself, then I will explain my case and let the judge see how stupid their policy is.....

Sounds fine and workable up to this part;

let the judge see how stupid their policy is

Judges are part of the system, and may take a dim view of you explaining how stupid it is, even if it's true.

Does it have to be an HK registered engineer or would headed note paper do?

Does not need to be a Hong Kong engineer. But it must be an enginner with the equivalent qualification as a Hong Kong professional registered engineer. So when I spoke with Government people, they said something like the Institute of Engineers or similar in the UK. It would need to be a letter ( does not need to be on official letterhead ) together with a photocopy of the professional qualification certificate stating that the car has been inspected by that person and the seat belt anchorage points in that persons opinion are safe and meets the requirements of BS AU48 : 1965. Problem is that nobody will ever agree to do such a thing. So I will take my chances with the law. I know that the car is safe otherwise I would not want to carry my family in it and under UK law, the car is fine. In fact being a total rebuild, its a lot safer than a lot of cars already on the road today.....in the UK and I think in Hong Kong. So I wont feel that what I am doing is wrong. Ethically and morally, I know im right....but under screwed up Hong Kong law, I will be in the wrong.

(5) I tightened up a dripping pipe connector which now no longer leaks, so that will now pass, but I noticed a damp patch on the connector to the nearside rear brake cylinder which the MOT people missed. So ive taken the connector off to reveal that the copper washers are badly worn. They should never have been used on the rebuild......I need to see if I can buy some new copper washers tomorrow but not sure where to get them from around here. No sure if they will be readily available. Pic of the connector and washers below

If it had been the correct washer, you can recondition them! To remove the work hardening, they need to be heated to cherry red (gas stove or blow torch) and immediately quenched in cold water. The surfaces can be filed/sanded flat as long as you take care to keep them flat and parrallel. This can be done unless the washer gets too thin. As the washer is the wrong size, you need a new one!

Good luck with your perseverence - it's a shame the car wasn't HK registered 'before' 2005'! Hopefully there's a few Minors already over there. I've known plenty of people work there, but have no idea what the place is actually like.

The seat belts in the diagram R53 are static which could mean a rejection if you fitted inertia belts as the triangular plate for the upper mounting would be redundant.
I am surprised that the front seats did not fail as being insecurely mounted only at the front. It would be an easy job to bolt the back of the seat to the floor. To think that the car was once an ordinary Series MM.
Anyone fancy trying to import a 1920s car???

Received the following email from the Hong Kong Government today :

"Dear Mr. White,

We discussed the motor vehicle alteration approval of your motor vehicle (Chassis Number: xxxx ) at our office on 26 November 2010.

I would like to present the document requirement for our approval of the vehicle alteration as follows:-

Seat Belt / Seat Belt Anchorage:-

If the seat belt is not built by the original vehicle manufacturer, the applicant should provide sufficient documents to prove the compliance of the retrofitted seat belts and seat belts anchorages. Transport Department would consider accepting the following documents:-

a) certified in writing by the vehicle manufacturer, a recognized testing authority (such as TÜV of Germany), or a Registered Professional Engineer (RPE) that the design and installation of seat belts and seat belts anchorages are in compliance with one or more approved regulations/standards stipulated in Road Traffic (Safety Equipment) Regulations, Cap 374F). Transport Department would consider other equivalent documents.

If you would like to make use of the letter from Quickfit Seat Belt Services dated 25 November 2010 as the proving document, please also submit together with the following for our consideration:-

a) photos showing the relative positions of all the anchorages with descriptions (i.e. front/rear, near side/offside, upper anchorage/lower anchorage) and photos of each individual anchorage point with description;
b) the capacity/position of the signer, Mr. xxxx

Brake System

Please submit photos showing the installation of the retrofitted brake system (servo / disc brake) for our consideration.

Please submit the letters (the letter from Quickfit Seat Belt Services dated 25 November 2010 and letter from ESM Morris Minors Ltd. dated 25 November 2010) for our vetting. If we accept the documents, we would issue an approval letter to you and you might then make appointment for a pre-registration examination for the subject motor vehicle. We consider a vehicle alteration approval application on case basis. This arrangement could not be considered as a precedent case for approving general vehicle alteration.


Regards,

xxxx
Engineer / Vehicle Approval and Planning
Transport Department"

Right......this is still a pain in the bum !! To answer some of the questions, yes it is possible to get a movement permit, and I have one of those however each time I take the car out I have to go into the Transport Departments office to get the letter officially "chopped" and I must supply a letter from the classic car club of Hong Kong to make the application which must be for a formal club event ( no nipping down to the shops for a pint of milk then !! ).

In terms of the belts themselves, they are static belts and are fine as they have the correct E4 marking. The issue remains the appoval of the anchor points on the chassis. Most post 1965 cars have an aluminium plate rivetted to the chassis somewhere evidencing that the front seat belt anchorages comply with BS AU48 1965. I believe you will find one in all Moggies later than 1965. However that does not help my case. If there were such thing as an identification plate permanently attached to the chassis confiming compliance with the BS AU48 1965 then in theory the Government would tick the box even if I dont supply what they are asking for if their above letter. Ive just heared from one old chap that after the 1965 BS AU48 came into effect that some people ( not many though ) had seat belts specially fitted by Morris dealers around the country and that an aluminium plate was attached in the boot area of the car just behind the boot hinge. I seriously doubt there is such a plate in my car, but I will go and have a look later today or in the morning.

I will photograph the front disc brake assembly and supply a drawing of the installation to the Government. Does anyone have a drawing that came with their Ford disc conversion kit ? I must have thrown mine away, or its tucked away in some box in my other garage in the UK !!

So, Im cancelling the retest for Thursday ( no refund la ) and will have to try and resolve everything with the Government before making another booking.

Ah well.....I must look on the bright side.....been to see the doc yesterday with suspected Diabetes....good news...the results are negative.....so im still smiling

Charles,
I will send you the fitting instructions for the Ford kit.
Regards
Declan

Shame the car wasn't IVA'd while in blighty - they certify seat belt anchorages on kits based on common sense. Then you would have had a bit of official paper!

Phil.

Declan_Burns wrote:Charles,
I will send you the fitting instructions for the Ford kit.
Regards
Declan

Declan. Well done !! Ive printed them off, taken pics of the actual installation and am about to go cap in hand to see the powers that be to push for the disc brake converion approval. With what you have emailed me, im 95% sure they will rubber stamp the brakes issue. Keep your fingers crossed.

A few pics of the brakes that I took this morning....[frame][/frame][frame][/frame][frame][/frame]

Many thanks to Declan for kindly emailing me the fitting / technical instruction booklet for the Ford based disc conversion kit. Ive also managed to google and download the fitting and technical manual for the Lockheed Servo unit. Then I copied the relevent pages of the existing front drum brake system from the Morris manual, a letter from ESM, a letter from Quickit Safety Belt Services and a photoraphic schedule of every seat belt mounting point with clear positions in the car. I also did a photographic schedule of the upgraded disc conversion, the Lockheed Servo, Remote Reservoir and pipework.

I took the whole lot ( a huge bundle of paper !! ) into the Government Offices where the staff now know me and sent me straight to the meeting room where the two top officials sat down with me an went through the documents in great detail. They are very sharp cookies and spotted that I had forgotten to include a photo of the two rear seat belt mounting points on the floor just behind the rear wheels ( under the rear seat in the corners ).

They seemed impressed and satisied with what had been presented ( thats my interpretation of their reactions.......but I could be totally wrong ). They indicated that if I add the photographs of the missing rear seat belt mounting points to the schedule and resubmit by email, then they may be able to issue an approval letter. Ive just taken the extra pics and emailed over to them. Im hoping tomorrow they will give the green light.

If they do then I can go ahead and rebook the pre-registration MOT and present the approval letter for the brakes upgrade and seat belts. Then...providing everything else is OK, I should get a pass certificate. If I get a pass certificate, I must then go and see the tax man in the North Point Government offices for their tax evaluation for the first registration which will be around 35% of the car's landed Hong Kong value. I guess that will be a tax bill of about 3,000 pounds but you nver know what they may try on........and then I can take the tax notice, pass certificate and register the car.

I will get the use the car this Sunday as I have a movement licence to attend a classic car event organised by the West Kowloon Police in Mong Kok. There is also a Sunday 7-30am classic car drive organised by the classic car club in Hong Kong, so im looking forward to that too.

The remaining bits I need to sort out ( providing the brakes and seat belts get sorted tomorow ) are :

- Bleed the brakes ( as I fitted new copper washers on a rear cylinder the other day and their will be air in the system )
- Sort out a tiny drip from under the sump....cant clearly see where its coming from so will have to remove the sump on Saturday and have a good look at it. I think its coming from the rear U section of the sump and maybe dribbling down the back of the sump. Whatever it is, I must fix it as its an MOT failure in Hong Kong.

Ive already sorted out a damp rear brake pipe fitting, inserted a 23mm reducer in the top of the fuel filler pipe and modified the hand brake so the brake lights come on when the hand brake is operated.

I think Im getting there....time for a cuppa !!

GREAT NEWS !! The Hong Kong Commissioner of Transport has granted approval of the seat belts ( front and back ), seat belt anchorages, Disc Brake conversion, Servo and Remote Reservoir.

I have just been down to their offices to collect the approval letter.

Tomorrow I will go down to the Test Centre to make a booking for the retest.

Well done! I am so pleased you got there in the end. It would have been such a shame after taking her out not to be able to use her. Fingers crossed for the MOT

Charles,
Great news at last-enjoy the car.
Regards
Declan

That is an impressive step forward! Good luck with your MOT

So feeling much better this evening I decided to go through the list of MOT failures and one of the failures of the first examination was a tiny blob of oil gently suspended from the back of the sump on the opposite side to the drain plug. They wont even allow one drop of oil from anywhere !!

So ive had a good look around but dont think its a hole in the sump. I think its a tiny drip from the top of the sump at the rear end where there is cork sealing gasket. So ive taken the sump off to have a better look.

The engine was fully reconditioned 100 miles ago and although I changed the first running in oil at 60 miles ( yes I know im impatient ) there was quite a lot of fine metally bits in the base of the sump after draining the second lot of oil out. Ive cleaned all that out, scrubbed up the outside and painted it up in smoothite black ready to be refitted tomorrow ( didnt have any green ).

Will put plenty of silicone gasket sealant around the cork round gaskets and rubber sump gaskets when refitting.

There does seem to be a very tiny area between the cork rounded gasket and the rubber side gaskets. Maybe its getting through there....

Anyone else had this problem before ?

A few pics below

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Heres the drip !

[frame][/frame]
gearbox looks ok

[frame][/frame]
nice pic of the inside of the engine.

[frame][/frame]
this is where i think the drip is coming from

[frame][/frame]
the good lady doesnt mind me using the kitchen to clean up the engine parts !! Top lady !!

[frame][/frame]
cant see any tiny holes in the sump base

[frame][/frame]
im thinking this is where the leak is coming from

[frame][/frame]
a better shot of the cok gasket... im 90% sure this is the problem area. lots of silicone gasket sealant when i put it back together tomorrow afternoon.

Don't put so much silicone that there are globs of it on the inside of the sump!

Charles,
Read through this:
http://www.mmoc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=35875

I have never had anybody come back to me after replacing the cork with rubber and still having an oil leak.
Regards
Declan

The problem is that the cork has been trimmed almost flush with the sump face. If it was left 1/4" proud either side it would compress and fill the space suficiently to stop the leaks. It seems "youngsters" forget how things used to be engineered