Morris Minor Owners Club

yes mate that sounds favourite, if the flanges are too wide or narrow you will have real agg lining up the timber etc, also the boot floor has to line up with the bottoms of the rear arches so that needs to be in line as the rear wood below the doors needs to sit easily on there, its also worth looking at other cars for reference, enjoy mate hope this helps.

Hi Wozzer, referring to my earlier thread on adding strength before removing rusty areas, and what 'mustard' is saying about alignment of the new rear wheel arches - with traveller restoration in particular, you should either leave the old timber on for as long as possible or trial fit your new timber to the cab and rear section of the car as soon as possible to give yourself a chance of lining up all the replacement panels you will need. If you don't then the car will lose it's shape and none of the outer panels will fit.

Looking at the project now I would take stock and get it aligned on a jig before fitting some more beefy strengthening sections (ie much larger than you have already fitted) otherwise you could be in trouble.

Regards Ian

Gooday wozzer and Ian

I am restoring a Trav here in Oz. Mine is currently in a very similar state to yours wozzer.

I have a question for Ian or whoever -- I appreciate the need to maintain the shape of the vehicle during the restoration process. Where do I get the detailed dimensional data I need to set up a jig?

I have some basic data for sedans etc from workshop manuals, etc, but where do I get the detailed data I need for the Traveller?

The woodwork the Trav came with was rotten and partly missing. I have a second-hand set, but I am concerned that it is not true and therefore unsuitable to use as a reference. I would rather get the bodywork right and make the woodwork fit than adjusting the body to fit the dodgy wood.

Waiting in eager anticipation

Cheers
Don

wozzer wrote:HI

I havn't even thought about the timber yet! All the metalwork will be 'best guess'.

As the replacement rear arches seem to come in three bits - the first is the inner, then there seems to be the flange that fastens to the wood, then the outside arch. I will only weld the inner arch in and leave the flange piece until I am ready with the wood. This 'should' then able me to play around with width etc.

What do you think?

Woz

Don't do "best guess" !!! Do the best job. Think about how the timber will fit back to your new metalwork. There are only two pieces for the traveller rear inner arch- the standard Minor rear wheelarch and the wood mounting flange- there are not three pieces.

I did exactly the same work on my Traveller (pictured), I would not move the car around like that with one rear inner wing gone, with weak and rusted away rear sills, without the wood and one inner arch gone the traveller steel floor has little rigidity. It is likely the rear spring hanger will be rusted out as well. Get the car back in the garage, jack it up front and back, use a level on the sills and across the width of the floor pan to get the car perfectly level and then support the side of the missing wing near to both spring hanger mounts with a 4x2 timber across the width of the floor supported by axle stands. If the spring hangers need replacement (likely!) then prepare also to remove the petrol tank and remove the axle. Also, support with a jack or axle stand and block of wood at the inner rear wing above where the axle goes.

The next job on that side is to carefully measure all suspension points and draw an accurate diagram, then drop plum bobs from each suspension point and mark the garage floor. The spring hangers can then be replaced- one at a time! (to enable measurements to the remaining spring points). When I did my traveller, I replaced one rear chassis leg and one front spring hanger to 1/16" accuracy.

Once the rear spring hanger has been replaced you can drill out the spot welds and remove the last of the inner wing, clean up inside the rear box section and repair as needed.

Next, get a new side of wood (if on a budget you can get "seconds" from Travellers Timbers for a cheaper price), then bolt the timber onto the B pillar and the corner of the boot and use the timber as a guide for poisitioning the rear inner wing and the wood mounting flange so that the inner wing can be clamped to the rear chassis flange whilst the wood mounting piece fits up to the wood.

Then you can weld the inner wing to the rear "chassis" box section, and weld the wood mounting piece so that the wood fits snugly. The mounting piece is a poor pressing and you will need to cut it to butt up to the inner wing/ have as small an overlap as possible. As Taupe says you can use zinc weld thru spray to protect inside box sections and where overlaps cannot be avoided. The inner wing was spot welded to the chassis member so it should be plug welded to the box section.

Really, you need to go on a restoration course to do all of this! There are many skills you need to master that such a course will teach you. I would also repair the sills with new sections before tackling the new real wheel arch. It is best when restoring a car to remove as little as possible before welding pieces back in to ensure the car keeps its shape.

Phone up Rob Thomasson, he will tell you the sad story of a traveller that Practical Classics magazine commissioned a garage to carry out the welding. The garage cut too much metal and rust out at once and did not support or brace the traveller properly and ended up with a car that was so out of shape that they tried to sort the problem by cutting a V- slot in the transmission tunnel!!! Needless to say the car never made it back to the road and was scrapped.

It is a lot of work, but with a bit of care, attention and thought you can do a great job. Surely better than "best guess"??? Don't guess, be sure.

Don

I dont think there are dimensions available for the rear traveller area except where people have taken their own measurements for reference.

The best you can do is jig the rear spring hanger points on the underside and carry this alignment forward to the main crossmember (these dimensions are the same on the traveller as the saloons as shown in the workshop manual). If you build up from there and use your better timber as reference you at least have some hope of getting it straight and the rear suspension will be aligned correctly.

Taupe

In terms of dimensions, chassis and suspension pickup points I think are available in the early MM Series workshop manuals. Maybe someone can confirm this. I will look later as I have one at home.

Whilst these measurements will be for MM saloons I believe they will be the same for all of the 'saloon type' bodyshells made throughout production.

Regards Ian

Wozzer, most folk here are very polite and wont tell folk what they really think.

I have read this thread to date and am left a little confused.
You have purchased a rotten car, you dont have the skills to re-build it yet you plan to do it as best you can and then give the potential death trap to your daughter.

I think you should step back and take a good look at what you are planning to do. Good intentions and luck wont make a safe car.
It is good fun to tinker with a solid old car, it is a whole different ball game when unskilled folk start repairing structural items without understanding what they are doing.

Thanks for you comments ptitterington...............

I do take note of what you are saying, however, I might not be a specialist welder, but I will make sure it will be safe........

Maybe not straight and square, but safe. Much safer than when it was last on the road I'm sure.

There must be plenty of wrotten cars out there still being driven around, sailing through their MOT's with fibreglass filled chassis legs etc.

I have built a car from scratch and understand the implications of safety, anyone who has mangaged to do this will understand the rigorous SVA examination to prove its road worthiness. My intention will be to put my car thrugh this test to prove it's safe to drive. I would never endanger anyone never mind my family.

By using this forum, I am trying to get ideas, information, help & advice from people who have done, or are doing much the same as me, and I will continue to document my restoration progress.

Maybe my mistake was to say 'best guess'..............

wozzer wrote:Thanks for you comments ptitterington...............

I do take note of what you are saying, however, I might not be a specialist welder, but I will make sure it will be safe........

Maybe not straight and square, but safe. Much safer than when it was last on the road I'm sure.

There must be plenty of wrotten cars out there still being driven around, sailing through their MOT's with fibreglass filled chassis legs etc.

so that's fine then as long as there are other worse cars out there.

those pesky drink drivers eh? ah well they must be ok. at least they're not murderers

this sort of thing is EXACTLY why i'm going to buy an original car or a complete skip and get it dealt with properly. "yeah, i reckon it's safe, and there are other cars out there which are worse, so it's ok." Would you really want to spend a sizeable amount of money on something that ended up not being that great, but wasn't as bad as it could be?

i've seen countless older cars on countless fora that are lashed up and stuck back on the road. it's starting to make me wince whenever i pass certain types of classic!!

i agree wholeheartedly with the Jersey- based pickup owner. if everyone who posted their resto were capable of doing THAT type of job i'd shudder less often

Evening Wozzer,

As you can see from my signature I am continuing to build a kit car at this time.

The SVA test you are refering to has now changed to a more rigorous IVA test (Individual Vehicle Approval test). It is only for the examination of home built kit cars or kit converted cars and is not applicable for 'restored' Morris Minors or other rebuilt classics.

It now costs £500 to enter the test and a Morris Minor will not pass due to a miriad of reasons; for example 'external projections' where the examiner is looking for minimum radii on all protruding edges; (so that's the end of the exhaust pipe, back of overriders, ends of bumper blades for a start. All fail points. The Minor's internal switches stick out from the surface of the dashboard more than 10mm; the switches aren't labelled/identified with logos; the interior door handles aren't flush with the panels. All fail points. The list goes on and on.

You don't want to go there.

What I and others are trying to tell you in the replies to this thread is that during a restoration of the type you are undertaking you have to be very careful with restoring the weakened structure or you can 'lock in' stresses with new repair panels applied without correct measurement. The car might end up being strong but it might not run true and the brakes might never pull the car up cleanly. That will come to light at the MOT at the end of all your hard work and monetary and financial input.

Regards Ian

Thanks to taupe and Ian for their replies to my earlier post in this thread. You have confirmed what my own research suggested -- there are no factory issued dimensions specific to the Traveller. I do have some Minor manuals with some dimensions relating to saloons--I will be making use of those.

Incidentally I am looking for a copy of the Morris Monoconstruction Manual, if anyone has a copy they are willing to part with for a reasonable amount.

I am getting a panel beater with considerable experience in restorations to do the critical body work on my Traveller, but I will need to give him some dimensions to work with. He has never worked on a Minor before let alone a Traveller.

wozzer -- all the best with your project.

Cheers
Don