Morris Minor Owners Club

I'm not a big fan of electronic driver aids like pas either....

PAS is fun when it fails......

I bet

None of my cars have ever had PAS, but having driven mums fester (which does) I've decided I want to try and avoid it!

It's not speed that is the problem, it is the abysmal driving standards nowadays. I often drive on country roads, and the panic braking at low speeds for bends which can be taken at the legal speed is on the increase. Combine this with 4x4's cutting corners, lack of signalling, anticipation etc etc, we'll need someone with a red flag in front.

Pete

plastic_orange wrote: and the panic braking at low speeds for bends

Pete

Can I add panic braking for speed cameras?

We have a 60mph single carriageway by us, the A446, with speed cameras. They have reduce the limit to 50 mph in places but it is clearly sign posted, then it changes to national speed limit (60). The amount of cars I have followed that panic brake to 30 mph to go through the cameras is dangerously amazing!!!

Speed is certainly related to bad driving. It's clear that there are three types of driver:
a) Blithering idiots who drive too slowly and impede one's progress;
b) Raving lunatics who come up behind and want to overtake;
c) Me.
Only (c) knows how to apply speed correctly

The one that I never understand is when in a long queue of cars on a single carriageway behind slow a moving vehicle (not a MM) and you see cars from the back starting to overtake the whole line of traffic and of course they find they can't so have to barge into someones braking space then everyone has to brake sharply for a driver who is too impatient to wait. The last time this happened to me on the A9 it was a Audi estate loaded with kids, bikes, dogs and one assumes a responsible adult.

Hello all,

as all other modes of transport are trying to go faster, it seems road traffic is being slowed down (I suppose air travel is static now as Concord no longer flies?).

Queues behind slow moving trucks does cause frustration on single carriage roads, partly because the vehicle immediately after it fails to take overtaking opportunities or does not leave sufficient room for the next vehicle to pass etc. (The old ditty, it's number two that forms the queue) This of course makes fo very poor average speeds and vehicles on the roads for longer, reducing an already limited capacity.

Reduced speed limits are an easy action that will do little to reduce accidents while avoiding investing in improving the roads and driving standards.

Alec

We have a 60mph single carriageway by us, the A446, with speed cameras

Outside the Belfry? Know it well.

Why are the limits imposed years ago, when cars had drum brakes and handling was dire by modern standards, now un-safe? Surely improvments in car development and safety has made the current limits even safer.

The advances made by vehicle technology don't necessarily make a road safer. You couldn't possibly drive a 50's car at 40mph down some roads without putting in a huge amount of skill, effort and bravado. Drive a Ford Focus down the same road and you could easily do the same speed without dropping your fag ash. If vehicle technology keeps advancing average speeds will increase because the 'comfortable speed' will advance. The result is that most drivers will find themselves worse off because they are reducing the time and space available to them to avoid a situation.
There was a suggestion a few years back that a particular new MPV, applauded for it's structural integrity in a collision was, to all intents and purposes, a killer. it was so good at protecting it's passengers that it obliterated anything it came into contact with. That's why bull bars were banned.
I know of some derestricted country lanes that are getting more dangerous simple because vehicle capability is such that now drivers can maintain the speed limit along them. Years ago vehicles couldn't get any where near. A closing speed of 60mph gives you a lot more avoiding time than a closing speed of 110. In addition, the introduction of satnav has resulted in a large amount of extra parcel and delivery vehicles using rat-runs at speed rather than main roads.
It's perception, attitude, observation and anticipation that makes the roads safer.
Here endeth the lesson.

simmitc wrote:Speed is certainly related to bad driving. It's clear that there are three types of driver:
a) Blithering idiots who drive too slowly and impede one's progress;
b) Raving lunatics who come up behind and want to overtake;
c) Me.
Only (c) knows how to apply speed correctly

That mirrors my experience on the road: The only thing I hate more than people holding me up when I'm in a rush to get somewhere are those who sit right on my tail when I'm not in a hurry

Jefftav wrote:The one that I never understand is when in a long queue of cars on a single carriageway behind slow a moving vehicle (not a MM) and you see cars from the back starting to overtake the whole line of traffic and of course they find they can't so have to barge into someones braking space then everyone has to brake sharply for a driver who is too impatient to wait. The last time this happened to me on the A9 it was a Audi estate loaded with kids, bikes, dogs and one assumes a responsible adult.

I am often one of those cars from the back that you describe.......... I will follow for a while and wait my turn but most of the time nobody makes a move when there is a safe opportunity to overtake. So I will try to make progress.

One thing that most people do not realise or practice is as quoted in the Highway Code:

168
Being overtaken. If a driver is trying to overtake you, maintain a steady course and speed, slowing down if necessary to let the vehicle pass. Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass. Speeding up or driving unpredictably while someone is overtaking you is dangerous. Drop back to maintain a two-second gap if someone overtakes and pulls into the gap in front of you.

169
Do not hold up a long queue of traffic, especially if you are driving a large or slow-moving vehicle. Check your mirrors frequently, and if necessary, pull in where it is safe and let traffic pass.




I do not agree with these 50mph limits. Where many of these are posted at many times it is safe to do 60mph or more.

The bigger issue here is that WE are not being allowed to assume responsibility for anything anymore. It is always somebody elses fault and authority feels the need to control us.

most of the time nobody makes a move when there is a safe opportunity to overtake. So I will try to make progress

It seems that most drivers have never had instruction on how to overtake safely. I've followed a long line behind a horse transporter. When there was an opportunity (about 2 miles of empty A road - but 1 lane each way), I had to overtake about 10 cars and the horse transporter. No one else had made any attempt!

Of course, it does require thinking and planning ahead - something that isn't taught these days!
The number of people I see drivingwith one had on the steering wheel (12 o'clock position) the other on the gear lever makes me think that modern cars have no power/trque!
(Rant over)

Hello Inovator\Colin,

as I said earlier, it's number two who forms the queue. That and the vast majority follow far too closely leaving very little room for manoeuvre, or indeed seeing the road ahead to assess if there is a chance to overtake.

As for 168. how often does that rule get followed, I would say the reverse is more likely 99.9% of the time?

Alec

As for 168. how often does that rule get followed, I would say the reverse is more likely 99.9% of the time?

I agree, but not totally! Having travelled enough small roads, I've had to tackle long queues - overtaking a handful of cars in one go takes a good deal of care (and a capable car). There's always a risk that one will not see you and steer into you - and the flip side that some nimby will try their best not to let you pull back in when you need to. You need to expect this to happen and know what to do if it does.

However in most cases, I've found other drivers to be sensible. There's a minority who's ego's are far too big, but it's best to ignore them.

If I ever spot someone doing dangerous overtaking, or driving far too close, my preference is to make it as quick as possible for them to get past - then get back to enjoying driving.

I've know people get irate when in a queue and someone from behinds starts overtaking because "it's a long que". However if they've got no intention of trying to get past the queue, it doesn't mean everyone feels the same.

If you think driving can be scary in Britain, try a trip to Poland! The situation is so bad that I have re-organised my entire life, to minimise the driving I have to do.
No exaggeration in the last statement. And I've been driving here for 15 years! I do not recommend a motoring holiday in Poland.
Every long holiday weekend, there are between 40 and 50 deaths over the three days on Polish roads, 500 or 600 injuries, and thousands, yes THOUSANDS of accidents. It's ridiculous!!!!!!!!!! Every long weekend, without fail.

I've driven around Europe quite a bit - in Slovakia, 12 years ago, if the sign said 50km per hour, that's what they did. I was in the centre of a town on a Saturday morning - surreal! Everyone going at 50km per hour, with about four or five car lengths between vehicles - nobody wanted to pick up a fine. I hope that hasn't changed, but I've not been back since.

Poles are generally great people - until they get behind the wheel. Then something bad happens. Very, very bad.

As an artic driver, No comment.

rayofleamington wrote: If I ever spot someone doing dangerous overtaking, or driving far too close, my preference is to make it as quick as possible for them to get past - then get back to enjoying driving.

That mirrors my attitude, I don't really want to get caught up in their accident

In terms of polish drivers - I'm seen some pretty shocking ones on UK roads equally I have seen far worse from drivers of UK registered cars - like anything some of them are better/worse than others. Most of them round here seem to be pretty competent.

Wow, and there was me thinking that the speed limit on a single carriageway road already was 50mph

Poland, Pah! try driving in India, no road markings and no rules, apart from never stop and overtake anything you can even if it is already overtaking something else also use the horn as much as possible.
A vehicle without a horn is probably considered a death trap but no brakes bald tyres etc. are all acceptable.