Morris Minor Owners Club

Free road tax for historic vehicles was introduced to help and encourage collectors (many of whom the conservative govt at the time realised were not rich) maintain their collection of classic historic vehicles. Many classic car fans have more than one historic vehicle in their collection and generally also run a more modern car on which they pay tax.

As for pollution;- this is no argument - as by whichever way you measure it (resources/ energy, the CO2 nonsense etc) a small engined economic classic ran for many decades is far more efficient on resources and energy than a disposable 8-10 year design life modern car.

Rather than a sharp cut off date which is the "nice hello" to the classic car community when the Labour party got in, cars should be judged model by model on their respective merits as usable historic vehicles, so, for instance all MGB's should be declared Historic vehicles not just those before 1973. Wheras most of the mass produced on robotic assembly line disposable tat made after the early 70's should not get Historic status. Exceptions should be made for exceptional post 73 vehicles that were designed as durable, have character and were something special in their day and continue to be so now.

Modern car manufacturers deperately need to stop taking the short term view of vehicle assembly, lifetime and scrapping at 10 years and take a longer term view of a vehicle durability model. The customer also needs to be re-educated in not wanted the "latest, new" model, seeing the virtue of tried and tested durabillity instead. This should apply to every item we buy, not just cars. So washing machines should be designed to last for decades and be easily repairable and have the parts available to do so. These goods could then economically and cleanly be made in Europe and the US, also the parts and infrastructure created to keep them going and we can stop importing cheap rubbish from China destroying our own economies in doing so.

Having said that, phone up the FBHVC, speak to the nice man and I'm sure he will re-assure you that this is all a rubbish rumour.

But modern cars are not seen as just transport, they are 'aspirational purchses ' for many and the motor trade simply reflects this. Who in their right mind would produce such an item when both taste,fashion, and legislation demand a constant re think of design and its suitability to 'the days' environmental constraints. How could a manufacturer be expected to carry on producing an engine for a 10 year old plus car when they know that it will no longer meet yet more stringent emmission tests. This is the very reason why Japan , 'junk' most cars over 3 years old.
I believe that soon ,manufacturers will be responsible for the disposal/recycling of all of their past products. We already have many recycled products in 'new 'cars and many concept cars are totally re newable.
Hopefully the motor industry will be able to produce yet cheaper cars that we can all afford, and benefit from the modern technology employed both in them and in their construction, if these are then disposeable or exchangable after this period then great, cheap modern, reliable, safe motoring for all.
The government is already backing electric car technology fully,and wants every new vehicle to be either electric or hybrid by 2020. It would now seem that after a deviation to fuel cells that major manufacturers such as Nissan ,Mitsubishi,Suburu, and Toyota are now talking of an electric future. Even specialist sportsccars are going electric.
Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your own views 'tried and tested durability' is now obsolete as more modern technology outpaces these designs, the fuel, cell and electric cars are the future, and one day the internal combustion engine will be consigned only to classic cars .

by then i will be retired from work

so long as i can drive the moggie

Snap !!!, ohh happy days are here again...de..dum.de.dum.............. The future 'is' bright!!

Hello Jonathon,

clearly you are correct in what will happen, as that is driven by commercial forces rather than a real desire to make cleaner cars.

Incidentally, Porsche and Aston Martin, a few years ago were seriously considering the 'car for life' idea, but hardy everyman's vehicles.

The drive for electrical powered vehicle is rather a false route for the UK given that we will be desperately short of electrical generating capacity in the very near future and little or nothing has been done to plan for this. Base load power stations take years to build so it would seem short sited to vastly increase the demand.
Wind power seems to be a good idea but practically it is, I believe, a non starter. Again the amount of resources to build what are rather large, but in electrical terms rather feeble devices is huge and as for siting them at sea, imagine the civil task of providing firm foundations, so the cost will be astronomical.

Alec

Agreed, I 've been reading an article written by Dan Strong and he clearly thinks the same saying
''so with little joined up thinkingfrom the policy makers, the PM's ambitious targets will remain pipe dreams'.
However if this 'policy' for clean cars is developed further it does in theory add music to the ears of the car manufacturers as official endorsement of the path for the engineers to follow in the coming years.
I don't really think that commercial forces and cleaner cars are opposing forces, and even if they were we will surely all benefit from a cleaner planet.
It only requires one Eureeka 'moment to transform power production and usage.
Just look at the electric cars ready for launch in the next few years ,they don't even have brake systems as we know it, but rather rely on the magnetic forces developed by its electric motors to slow it down. This technology of energy regeneration is a commitment that all FI teams have signed up for in next years championship.
I expect to see huge developments in this electric technology over the next few years, removing the established ideas of what a car is to a new level.

Further reading suggested that in future MOT testers will also plug into the ECU to check if the vehicle has had any thing done to increase emissions that has then been removed prior to MOT

A standard socket was introduced at some point and also a European standardised format for diagnostics relating to emmissions - nicknamed 'OBD' in the industry. The dates were across Europe and announced in plenty of time to tie up with UK tax law however I have no idea if they do match.
As for being able to check if modifications were made and then removed - that's complete myth.

A massive amount of modern cars have a worse carbon footprint than my Minor, but facts count for little when it comes to Government policy.
The EU top man for cars and emmissions (forgotten his name) has been making speaches regarding new cars and emmissions. Apparently they want everyone to get new cars so they can reduce emmissions, but realise if they tighten emmissions regulations too much, new cars will be too expensive and therefore not enough get into the market. They don't consider the concept that high technology can bring high production pollution.

Back on topic of old cars, the EU considered this in 2006/7. They did a survey regarding how much classic cars contribute to road pollution. Thankfully the percentage was low enough for them to be ignored

I believe Alan Clark MP had a lot to do with the original 'Free Tax' for old cars plan - he had sheds full of them ! And indeed -used to keep several in the House of Parliament underground car park despite many warnings !!

the EU still have the free at 25 year rule, so if they tried to change the taxation class in any way here there ought to be a strong lobby to fall in line with the rest europe. Hopefully this means at worst they won't mess about with the current pre 73 rule.

Which don't forget was Gordon Clown's gift to classic motoring. Well seen he doesn't have a driving licence!