Morris Minor Owners Club

one of these? never seen one on a minor before! where do they go? :s

They hold the shoes against the back plate

where do they go?

In the bin in Ray's case it seems!

I've got a couple of them but I haven't used them for ages. No obvious problem to date.

Brake pedal spring? - piece of cake - just make a stout wire hook and pull it up 'till you can push the spring hook into place.

The back two bolts on the engine mounting tower bolts thats another thing!

The hardest job of all for me is to leave the pub after working on the car.

Beehive springs.
I've read somewheere it depends on how you install the shoe return springs.
If between the shoe and backplate then the beehive can be left off.
The "correct" way, however, if the shoe retrun springs are fitted between shoe and drum so beehives are needed.
The explanation is the shoe will be forced by the springs in the direction that they are mounted.
ie If on inside they are forced against backplate, If outside then they are forced toward wheel.

Does this sound right ?

I've no experience of beehives myself as my car doesn't have them fitted.

Paul Humphries.

I fitted the return springs first from behind as I find the beehive springs far too fiddly and I've had no problems.

i would agree with brake bleeding, especially when errrr the nipples are worn! master cylinder is horrid too, why were the bolts put in the stupid way around......so u have to get past the torsion bar i mean. I swapped them round afterwards...hope it doesnt matter.

I think the idea is that if the nuts come loose, the torsion bar prevents them falling out and leaving you with no brakes. It's also possible the end of the bolt might catch on the torsion bar and damage it if you put the bolts in the "wrong" way round.

bigginger wrote:Always puzzled me why people find them so tricky I've just been lucky, I guess

I dont like bending the torsion bar down to access the mounting so decided to remove the suspension to give access.

Then the rear union was siezed solid, penetrating fluid, heat etc made no difference, brake spanner could not get in there. I had to cut a perfectly good brake pipe to enable removal of cylinder. Then the cylinder was rusted in and required a pry bar and hammer to shift it. Its the worst job on the Minor because everything else mechanical is easy to get at. Welding the body is easier because you just remove bits one at a time, only made hard if someone has allready been there and done some bodged welded repairs.

where do they go?

I've never had to put them in the bin as all my Minors came without them. Fitting the srings on the backplate side of the shoe creates a reasonable side load on the shoes anyway.

I swapped them round afterwards...hope it doesnt matter.

It is quite common to swap round the m/c bolts, but after a while you may notice a deep groove worn into the torsion bar (not desirable).
There is usually clearance between the bolt/nut and the torsion bar when installed, however as the torsion bar moves when under load, it is very likely to rub on the bolts (unless they are the correct way round). Plenty of cars have been left in this condition, but personally I wouldn't take the risk.

As for brake pedal return spring - Roger's tip is spot on and works well - it can be done in minutes.. However if the linkage pin in the bottom of the brake pedal is rusted in place, this can take hours! You need to be able to adjust the orientation of the small linkage pin to make it easier to locate the 2nd end of the spring. Best bet is to use some brute force and free up the little linkage pin - this is time well spent.

rayofleamington wrote:As for brake pedal return spring - Roger's tip is spot on and works well - it can be done in minutes.. However if the linkage pin in the bottom of the brake pedal is rusted in place, this can take hours! You need to be able to adjust the orientation of the small linkage pin to make it easier to locate the 2nd end of the spring. Best bet is to use some brute force and free up the little linkage pin - this is time well spent.

It didn't take too long to work out that the pin needed freeing off and the remains of the old snapped spring needed removing from the hole (the latter job was rather tricky due to lack of access), but it took another half an hour's worth of pain and misery before I discovered that the hook on one end of the new spring was too long to go in the hole. I trimmed it down a bit, then another twenty minutes of thrutching and twanging and grazed hands, and the little *@#%^!! finally twanged into place.

With the beehive springs, the first one took about ten minutes, but once I got "the knack" of it I found I could do them in about twenty seconds. It just takes a pair of needle-nosed pliers and brute-force.

When I re-fitted the M/C, I tried re-fitting the bolts the other way round, and even with a bit of the new bolts cut off the end of the thread, the nuts touched the torsion bar. I think the best way is to reove the torsion bar- as said above, with practise and the correct sized Whitworth sockets/ spanners you can have the whole suspension side off fairly quickly- 40 mins or less, and can renew the bushes on re-assembly.

The back two bolts on the engine mounting tower bolts thats another thing!

Seconded - one was stuck when I took my engine out, and it's too awkward a space to get a grinder in. I ended up having to bash it off with a chisel, which took several hours. Grr!

Taking off the headers on my V8 is a real pain in the proverbial, but refitting them is worse - give me master cylinder/beehive springs etc etc anyday.

Pete

strip back all the paint on the hole car to bare metal by hand

Sounds painful

yes yes sweating whilest snowing

Paul wrote:

I've read somewhere it depends on how you install the shoe return springs. If between the shoe and backplate then the beehive can be left off.

Yes, that's how I've always done it - and Rob Thomasson gave the same advice in the latest issue of Minor Matters

Ben wrote:

I swapped them round afterwards...hope it doesnt matter.

- it does matter, very much - for the reason that Ray mentioned. If they wear a groove in the torsion bar it is a certain MOT failure and it might lead to a stress fracture and suspension collapse..

Two things really irk me about the m/c position - 1) the need to bend the torsion bars and 2) trying to undo the brake pipe union a quarter of a turn at a time (due to the limited clearance). Rather than having two bolts going sideways through the chassis legs, why didn't the m/c just have four threaded holes in the base with the bolts going through the bottom of the chassis legs? It would have been a 5 minute job that way!

Long winded, but try removing the pedals/linkage and pulling the M/C forwards to where you can get at the rear union more easily The reverse of how they were put in, I'd say.