Page 9 of 12
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:50 am
by bmcecosse
I can't see a huge problem making them from say EN24 steel - I did suggest this way back at the beginning of this thread. But - obviously - they won't be cheap. Just measure up a swivel pin - and make a drawing from that. Would need a separate piece attached for the brake back-plate mounting - and tight tolerance on the fit for the axle pin. And left hand swivels have left hand threads although I can't see any great reason for this and maybe RH threads would be ok, although a correct LH threaded axle pin would have to be fitted!
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:35 pm
by jonathon
No problem in having them made BM, but as you say the cost is prohibitive, for a small batch run tou will be looking at well over £130 each, and even then you will need to get tham tested and approved before considering a sale and a profit margin.
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:57 pm
by simmitc
But of course we've already seen a much better price (subject to confirmation) from another UK company. With the latest promised date of January already well past, and no delivery, the situation would be farcical if it wasn't see serious.
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:54 pm
by jonathon
M25VAN wrote:Right, I have had a reply from Tildesley's. Bear in mind that this is a rough quote based on size, weight and pictures, for a more accurate quote a sample leg would be required...
For 50 legs completely machined the cost is approx £66
For 100 legs £56
For 250 legs £50
Tooling (ONE OFF)would be approx £5700.
This assumes that some broaching will need to be done and much of this cost is for a broaching tool (?) that would need to be made. Cost of this is approx £1,300-£1,500. If it is handed then I guess the cost could double. Perhaps someone can explain what this is and if it would need to be done.
I didn't like to ask too many questions as the chaps seemed to be very busy.
Well there you have it, what do people think?
I presume that this is the price you mean ? but was this not for just the machining of a cast leg, rather than a machined billet ?.
From the above ,using the worst case it would cost £12,500 for the legs to be machines and £3,000 for the tooling, plus the unit cost of the casting/forging say another £12-15,000 all plus Vat and a delivery date probably near the end of the year.
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:43 pm
by Judge
As I said before, anybody want to buy a Morris Minor. Choice of three
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:18 pm
by aupickup
any one want swivel legs
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:23 pm
by Judge
Got any for a Series MM as well?
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:24 pm
by M25VAN
jonathon wrote:M25VAN wrote:Right, I have had a reply from Tildesley's. Bear in mind that this is a rough quote based on size, weight and pictures, for a more accurate quote a sample leg would be required...
For 50 legs completely machined the cost is approx £66
For 100 legs £56
For 250 legs £50
Tooling (ONE OFF)would be approx £5700.
This assumes that some broaching will need to be done and much of this cost is for a broaching tool (?) that would need to be made. Cost of this is approx £1,300-£1,500. If it is handed then I guess the cost could double. Perhaps someone can explain what this is and if it would need to be done.
I didn't like to ask too many questions as the chaps seemed to be very busy.
Well there you have it, what do people think?
I presume that this is the price you mean ? but was this not for just the machining of a cast leg, rather than a machined billet ?.
From the above ,using the worst case it would cost £12,500 for the legs to be machines and £3,000 for the tooling, plus the unit cost of the casting/forging say another £12-15,000 all plus Vat and a delivery date probably near the end of the year.
No, from my understanding the quote was for forging AND machining. Delivery was approx. 12 weeks not the end of the year.
If this had been persued at the time I think we could probably have had the legs by now. If it had been persued earlier last year when the problem began then we wouldn't be having this conversation today!
TEDJordan - I can send you the photos and very rough measurements that I sent Tildesleys if it would help.
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:25 pm
by aupickup
i have one that is different to the others, it has 2 holes for the steering arm,
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:41 pm
by M25VAN
aupickup wrote:any one want swivel legs
Yeh, readily available new ones off the shelf for all
I wonder what the back order is for these with suppliers after more than a year of unavailabilty....
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:45 pm
by aupickup
yes that would be good if we could get them
i do have a few pairs of new old stock ones
i will have a look and if any one is really desperate for a pair then email
Posted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:58 pm
by jonathon
Thanks for the confirmation M25van, it was a presumption as the quote did not specify. 12 weeks would have been a very good turn around time for producing and machining the kingpins as well as making the tooling.
Not too sure about the back orders, the demand for these has been confused somewhat by the trade and public chasing the same orders for each other. However I'd anticipate that the stock will be soon sold as each supplier will not want this state of affairs to happen again, and so stock up, it will be very interesting to see how the prices are affected by the sudden demand.
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:13 am
by bmcecosse
Folks can't be too desperate for king pins - aset on ebay earlier this evening complete with the useful 8" drum brakes - didn't get a single bid!
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... :IT&ih=022
Ok - they weren't new - but would surely have done a turn ?
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:02 am
by Judge
I think that the concern with buying parts like this is that they may be in worse condiion than the ones being replaced.
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:05 pm
by Dean
Bill, the club spares have new old stock MM swivel pins. Be warned they are very very early ones with the small tapered steering arm hole. My series two is fitted with MM swivel pins that have the later and larger steering arm taper hole.
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:29 pm
by Ratbag
Would the MGOC stand idley by (with money in the bank) while cars were off the road for want of a common spare part?????
Which part is next?
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:25 am
by Pyoor_Kate
...so are we back to waiting for the unnamed manufacturer to miss another production date? Only I kinda need to make a decision about what to do with Rebecca's front suspension. The MMOC's undersize solution appears to be the only viable one at the moment... am I correct?
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:26 pm
by M25VAN
I wonder what proportion of Minors are daily runners and kept on the road as opposed to cars that are used weekends etc and stored off road. Maybe this is why we have managed to go so long without these parts.
I still don't understand though suppliers reluctance to pursue alternatives.....
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:42 pm
by jonathon
Might be simply a lack of money to invest and an uncertain market place if the original manufacturer manages to start his supply, before a new supplier and the market place, then has a glut of swivel pins with no buyers and no return on an investment.
I'd doubt if any 'one' supplier could afford the required investment anyway.
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:58 pm
by Dean
Pyoor_Kate wrote:... The MMOC's undersize solution appears to be the only viable one at the moment... am I correct?
I guess so, unless you can find a source for some decent second hand ones.