Morris Minor Owners Club

Here here (jonathon & wibble_puppy)

Well done

If you bring in a professional company to run the event then the costs will go up. If the lack of toilets and showers was due to them being stuck elsewhere then the same problem would exist, regardless of who ordered them.

In many cases the volunteers who organise these things are fully experienced and arguably better than many of the so called professinals.

but surely these hire companies for toilets and showers have other resources
they managed to get some toilets didnt they ???????

and i think itend to agree that professionals may be better, but not sure if this is the answer to the main problem of lack of things to do at the rallys

it really needs better facilicated venues with other attractions as well, to bring in more entrants

also i think having to email for a plaque after the event is going to far, at other shows i attend and there is a plaque it is given out at the rally point entrance so again could not see why this was not the case

expense or not the club has the funds to make these rallies a memorable occasion

so really there are no excuses

Simon, It was only the infra structure of the rally that I feel needs to be professionally outsourced. It is unfair for a LTD company the size of the MMOC to rely purely upon volunteers efforts. As a member I would rather that a higher % of my subs went towards a professional company versed in needs of a demanding clientel, this way at least the basic requirments would be in place, for the MMOC to arrange their more specific minor related attractions. Many good ideas have been voiced for things to do, and hopefully these will be given due concideration.
If the issue of missing toilets and showers was due to unforseen circumstances then maybe everyone will understand that this can happen. However as an official explanation has yet to be offered, it leaves us in the dark.
If The club has experienced volunteers then great this should aid the smooth running of the Rally. My argument is that the club cannot say that our subs go towards paying for a rally, as this doesnot exist as an entity, infact as you say it relies almost totally on volunteer effort, so in effect we are both paying in advance for a rally that the MMOC Ltd also expect us to run. Quite Bizarre. I'm not totally convinced by the argument that volunteers can be more suitable than professionals.
Why not approach an event organiser, obtain a good blueprint of the requirements for a Minor National Rally and facilities then apply this every year. Once in place I sure that the volunteers can quite adequately run the specific minor events.
As for traders attendance, it has to be faced that we do not attend to make money, I'd be very surprised if any major trader attending made a profit at the show once expenses have been removed. We do not expect to break even let alone make a profit as we view the show as a shop window on our products. In fact including the £70 fee for the pitch plus the expenses of getting ourselves there , we made a loss of just under £3000. I'm not complaining at all but it does give an indication as to why trader participation has dropped off, this is made even worse if the venues are placed in more out of reach venues.

also i think having to email for a plaque after the event is going to far, at other shows i attend and there is a plaque it is given out at the rally point entrance so again could not see why this was not the case

If everyone were to book their entry in a teimly fashion then the club could order the right number of plaques! A typical problem at present is that people don't pre-book, so the club has to make an inspired guess as to how many plaques to order - say entries + x%. Too many and its an increased cost; not enough and people have to wait. No-win. If you pre-book you normally get instructions that tell you to collect plaques and programmes from control point. Hey, pre-booking even helps ensure that there are the right number of toilets for the number of people expected

Just for interest, how many cars pre booked , I think someone guestimated 600 cars actually attended.

Jonathon, I think that you and I agree on many ideas; and I certainly appreciate the many valid points that have been raised by others. This is not addressed purely to you, but to everyone.

I think that Andrew (S) has presented very sound arguments (at the AGM) as to why rallies are held as they are, not least because historically they're what seems to work. If there is a groundswell of opinion that something different is needed then let's concentrate on what has been positive. For example:

Lichfield: Shared event, Great location with loads for everyone to do, even shops and town centre close ta hand.
Braemore: Superb toilets, excellent catering.
Donnington: Inter-branch challenge.

Now an opportunity for others to say what has been good.......

And of course, in thinking about rallies, we have to consider the costs of staging same: Venue, marquee, generators, lighting, entertainment, plaques, printing, signposting, insurance, toliets, expenses (it costs to visit sites and plan events), rubbish disposal, catering (for the party, and sometimes an event has to agree to underwrite a caterer attending - it's a credit to MMOC that this doesn't usually happen), etc, etc, etc.

Remember, the whole of the MMOC main committee and rally committe are very friendly and approachable, and welcome constructive suggestions and feedback in general. I'm never backward in putting forward my thoughts, but have never found anything but friendliness from ALL "officials".

2008 is going to be a BIG event, so let's all draw a line under 2007, wait for the offical report in due course; and put foreward the positive things for the future........

I think apart from the legitimate complaints raised over this years Rally, that the comments have been very constructive, and show that everyone is willing to propose or second good valid ideas on how to improve on what we were presented with this year.
I do not think head hunting (blame)has been a issue with the comments raised, but I can understand frustration at the lack of response from the MMOC to address the issues raised. These may come in time, but this forum is quite an immediate media and answers are normally very quick to arrive.
In my opinion , to free up the time and effort which is needed to sort facilities , professional event organisers should be appointed so that the MMOC can concentrate their efforts on the Minor events and protocol.
2008 Rally should be one to prove that the will and resource's are fully optimised by the MMOC, and that the lessons are learned from the problems and successes alike, from previous rallies.

well simon i am sorry to disagree about plaques , they should be handed out at the rally point when you arrive
i pre booked anyway, i all ways do , i did not just turn up so to speak

well lets hope the club have learned by now what members want at rallies, although i would doubt that very much, a bit like ostriches and bury there heads in the sand.

i can not see a problem why the committee and organisers can not answer this on the forum, as we are in the age of the internet and like it or not this is the way to go forward.

it wont be long before all this will be done on the internet
also another point
why cant the agm be linked to the internet and then we can all have our say

in years to come this will be the way
but then this club does not like change maybe

Well said, Johnathon.

yes well said jonathon

wqell lets just hope then that next years rally will be a good one with all points raised taken on board.

i feel that the website is the everyday mmoc, as points raised and questions asked can be responded to very quickly.

i am sure there are many mmoc mebers that do not access the website and there complaints will mainly stay with them

at the lack of response from the MMOC to address the issues raised.

When did you write to them Jonathon?

i am sure there are many mmoc mebers that do not access the website and there complaints will mainly stay with them

Yup - I agree. Although the one's who want their complaints to be constructive, and not just hot air, will use the contact details as issued in the club mag.
As for forcing club officials to come on the messageboard? If the committee members had to spend a few hours a day trawling through message board posts instead of using all their spare time (outside their full time jobs) to run the club, then I'd stop being a member as the club would fall to bits very quickly. I'd prefer the committee to serve the interests of 14000 members instead of spending hours chatting with 60.
Likewise if the club had to hire full time officials to replace all the many many activities done by volunteers (who still volunteer their time and effort despite criticism from those who don't help at all) the membership fees would be massive and the club would loose so many members it would probably cease to exist as we know it now.

I'd be very surprised if any major trader attending made a profit at the show once expenses have been removed. We do not expect to break even let alone make a profit as we view the show as a shop window on our products.

If a trader can loose £3000 on a £70 pitch then just imagine how much you could loose if paid organisers had to be paid on top of that.
I'm pretty impressed with the MMOC for breaking even, or occasionally making a small loss from the National rallies, when a proffessional company can loose £3000 on just one stand.

jonathon wrote:Just for interest, how many cars pre booked , I think someone guestimated 600 cars actually attended.

I think 600 were what was expected, but about 50 less than that came. (Double emphasis on "think")!

simmitc wrote:For example:

Lichfield: Shared event, Great location with loads for everyone to do, even shops and town centre close ta hand.
Braemore: Superb toilets, excellent catering.
Donnington: Inter-branch challenge.

Now an opportunity for others to say what has been good.......

Well I'd hope that you could add the Driving Challenge and/or the Interbranch Challenge from last years National to that list. I'd be flippin' mortified if not! 'Er indoors would also like to raise a glass to a National (cant remember where, but someone else will) where a bus was laid on to one of those discount shopping places, so the girls didn't have to traipse round rows of polished cars. Hey, dont call me sexist - I was told what to write there!

aupickup wrote: why cant the agm be linked to the internet and then we can all have our say

Actually it wouldn't be too hard to rig something like this up - or at least to 'televise' the AGM live and stream it via the site. Bringing feedback in from the video audience is a bit trickier, but again it could be done if there was sufficient will.

rayofleamington wrote: I'd prefer the committee to serve the interests of 14000 members instead of spending hours chatting with 60

I think thats a bit simplistic. Lets be honest (if controversial) and admit that many thousands of members have no 'interest' in the club whatsoever, and only pay their subs to get the discount insurance and to read the trader adverts in the mag. They dont come to Nationals, dont come to regional rallies, hell they dont come to branch meetings. Now I'm not criticising that, if it works for them then great. The point is though that the vocal minority (no pun intended) on here represent many many more, and are giving the MMOC an opportunity to hear their views. Back from my Uni days I remember being told that 9 out of 10 people dissatisfied with a product or service will simply just walk away, and the business selling to them will never have any idea of why they left. The remaining 1 out of 10, or those of us here to bring it into context, give that business the benefit of their opinions (whether they're right or wrong).

Rather than say "oh, they're just the whiny sods who are never happy", a forward-thinking business would recognise that 1 in 10 as people who have no vested interest, and are freely giving up their time to let the business know why they are unhappy. If you can cater to them, then you're also catering to the other 9 who didn't say anything but just boogered off. In the same lecture we discovered that it costs 8 times as much to find a new customer as it does to satisfy an existing one - club membership is on a steady if gradual decline, and we'd be wise to stem the flow now before there aren't enough members to justify a National rally!

also i feel that if we start losing traders, through lack of interest, or for whatever reason ( ebay included) the nationals will lose another few attenders.

a trader can lose money , because of organising his stand beforehand, which will lose him money if he is not actually working, i noted that a few traders ( auto jumblers ) did not sell as much as they used to, is this down to ebay or just general lack of funds by the public,

this is the day of the internet, and we have to move with it, and this forum will be the voice of the so called 60 memebers who obviously have an interest in the club.

there will all ways be a percentage that take no active or otherwise interest in what ever club they belonged to, so unfortunately we do have to listen to the so called minority of the club members on here

and it is the members on here that will move the club forward

Ray, as I specifically said in my post, we normally do not expect to make a profit at the show. the costs incured were 7 days off to prepare for the show £1800,rent of marquee £370, pitch £70, help on the show days and clearing up £380, fuel 5 runs taking and fetching £60, card and printing costs app £100, etc etc .It was our choice to attend the rally in the knowledge that it establishes our presence and will hopefully bring work in over the next few months.
I see no parallel between my position and that of the MMOC Ltd. It seems to be quite a blinkered view that those attending the rally should cover the cost of running it and make a profit. By paying a sub we are creating a huge fund of money approx £250K every year. The club ear marks set amounts to run the club. So in effect the National has money set aside already ,from the budget available. Why then is this rally required to make a profit, especially by just those who attend.
You say that the club has 14,000 members, and gossip has it that this years Rally cost £7K, so is it really realistic to try and run a major rally on 50p per head. I'm afraid if it is then this can only insult the club membership as to the amount of spend on their rally, which the club then expects them to run. If we take the magazine if I remember it uses about 65% of the annual income,yet you don't ask for volunteer printers, compilers and distributors.I'm happy for volunteers to help should they wish to, but in no way should the National be reliant on them, especially if their being badgered into it by some of those on this forum.
I feel that the priorities need to be reassessed and the 'Gold ribbon event', the National Rally be given greater prominence and thought. If it cost £3 per member then maybe we could all expect a more professional show, both in site facilities and Minor related events.
Finally Ray, I totally disagree with you about, this forums contribution to MMOC Ltd affairs. Yes we are a minority, but a pretty level headed bunch with diverse interests and life experience, much the same could be said about the attendance at the National AGM, which has fewer contributors than this forum ,yet the club feel quite at liberty to make major decisions for the club based on the numbers less representative than we have here. As for committee members taking part in debate on the forum ,why not? they do not need to trawl through pasges of info just the specific ones which are causing major issues. Bill seems quite happy to participate in the forum so why not any other representative from the committee who could just spend 1/2 an hour explaining the MMOC Ltd side. We are after all people with jobs who might well give up valuable time to different causes etc so lets not create too high a pompous pedestal for the committee members.

hi there

we're just back in switzerland from our journey from south-england...we did 2000 miles with our traveller in 2 weeks...it was great...
to visit the national-meeting was a great experience:
-we met very friendly people
- the traders with their parts for sale was like a paradise for me as a
swiss-moggie-driver
- the weather was after the first week a really happy thing
- the atmosphere on the ground was amazing
- i did like the organisation, there is always a thing for getting much
better as it was (that's life)

we did very enjoy our trip to england (incl. a visit to goodwood and a trip over the race-track, thanks to the race-ground-chief who did like our moggie ;-)

best regards to all we (maybe) met at the national from the very warm and sunny switzerland

The remaining 1 out of 10, or those of us here to bring it into context, give that business the benefit of their opinions (whether they're right or wrong).

My point wasn't that complaints should be ignored. Simply that complaints on here are part of the 9/10, not part of the 1/10.

If you think the club committee would benefit from having official communication via an internet messageboard, that seems a very valid point. I'm sure you could get the point raised to a committee meeting if you wanted to.

Food for thought?

Simply that complaints on here are part of the 9/10, not part of the 1/10.

Think you have this the wrong way around Ray. Comments have been made both of complaint and constructive criticism plus avenues which might be followed in the future.
I'll be sending an email to the committee raising the point of communication with them, or a representative via the forum this week.

complaints on here are part of the 9/10, not part of the 1/10.

Think you have this the wrong way around Ray.

We'll have to disagree on that one for now. For those like yourself and others that I know of, (who've contacted the correct people to raise points) then that's the 1 in 10.

My point regarding £3000 to run a single stand compared to the running of a complete event was meant to be a very simple one. Everything costs money, so if the event was run without the help of volunteers, then multiply the £3000 cost of one stand by a few dozen times to cover marshalls, marking out, months of planning etc... and the rally costs could easily become astronomical!
The MMOC has to hire marquee's etc... Sound systems toilets and all facilities. All the marshalls had to travel to the site, etc... so I see a HUGE parrellel between a stall and a show - except that the show has all the same things and more, but on a bigger scale.

Remembering back to the AGM - there were also members voicing their opinions that it would be a waste of club resources to even post meeting minutes online (I think that's what the tut's and grumbling meant)! The club membership is very diverse and the messageboard is still only a very small part. Fortunately it's a growing part, and has so far been supported very well by members and committee level!