Morris Minor Owners Club

dear nickol, most of us british have had donkeys years to think about leaving e.u. and it will take more than a remain politicians view to make us think different. generaly speaking when we ask about we cant find anybody who voted for it in the first place. interested to know who you work for? re john.

Total poppycock and typical of the uninformed propoganda being issued by both sides of the equation. Certainly there are commissioners who make recommendations but these are endorsed by the euro parliamen that is more representaive than any "first past the post System". You are confusing the influence of the lobbists within certain departments upon the commissioners where, incidentally the anglo-american influence is particulary strong.(Quote)

Really? Laws are dictated to the commissioners by the "Parliment". Who voted for this Parliment? Totally UNELECTED body.
Who voted for the (failed) politicians who fill the seats of power--Junker, Mandleson, Kinnock to name a few "stars"


There are some quite logical arguments for wanting to leave the EU, but that is not one of them.(quote)


An alternative every 5 years? In England there appears to be a choice of only two - what Kind of choice is that?[/quote]

I did say it was a flawed version of democracy, notably FPTP. Thats why Ukip has only one MP despite 4 million votes.

The euro parliament is an elected body but not on the same Basis as in UK "local" elections. Parties nominate candidates and the number that become eligibal from this list is dependant on the size of their %Age vote. This is widespread practice on the continent in Country elections.

IF UK were to have a similar System then Mr Lafage's UKIP would indeed have been represented as befits his vote share and indeed why not? The AfD in Germany - with similat views to UKIP incl withdrawal from EU - had 14% on average in the state elections ( similar to British counties) and now scares the excrement out of the established parties for when the national elections take place next year.

And wrong, Junker was elected, initially as head candidate of the Luxembourg EVP and then, after other candidates dropped out of the running, he won the head to head against Martin Schulz.

Do not misunderstand me - if Britain wishes to withdraw then so be it - but please do so for the right and informed reasoning and not as a result of american style Marketing where those with the most Money investing in the campaign can put their views across. The title of this thread is very apt as "Referendum malarchy". If Britain had a more democratic modern Democracy, you may have been spared this malarchy.

Still not 100% sure but I'm thinking that the eu is looking more and more like a failing political project...

I ask the same question again Nickol.. Who and how can anyone vote for these positions of absolute power?
They are appointed--you know it.
Glad to see that you are in agreement that we have a slim chance to escape this shrinking ,failing project--despite all the lies and deceit that are offered from "project fear" over here.

What worries me is even if we win this vote, will the EU ask us to vote again as they have in Greece,Ireland and elsewhere?

Firstly, they are not positions of absolute power and the persons were elected by the euro MPs. You are right of course in a sense that these fellows were appointed as a lot of wheeling and dealing goes on behind the Scenes before the actual vote takes place.

Similarly you did not vote for or against Mr Cameron, nice chap as he is, but for his Party or more precisely for a local MP belonging to his Party and this MP then voted (or not as the case may be) for Mr C as leader. Again similarly a lot of Background negotiations took place for sure before his "appointment" was confirmed.

Win the vote?? Assuming you mean voting to leave constitutes a win, then for sure nobody is going to win anything either way - there will only be losers. Even the americans would lose in this case as they will have to find a new strategic Partner within the EU - UK will not be of any worth any more to them.

Incidentally, if you are able to check the two countries Norway and Switzerland who are not in the EU, in order to trade they are obliged to adapt over 80% of their rules in order to do so. Thus at the end of the day, as far as a trade Agreement is concerned, there would be no difference. But you know this already.

It appears other eu members are worried about us wanting to leave.

Absolutely, it would be a disaster for everyone.

That's an opinion, not a fact. There are plenty of people who have a different, just as valid, opinion. Part of the problem is that nobody knows for sure what will happen whether we stay or leave.

It stirkes me that if the EU insists on controlling 80% of rules for non-members then that just makes it a bully and not the kind of institution with which i would want to be associated.

The concept of free trade is excellent (in my opinion) but the burden of all the other rules and regulations - and costs, is not.

With some inspired leadership, less elitism and a 'can do' approach, plus a true British bulldog spirit, we can make it work as a country, whatever short-term issues appear. What has happened to backbone, and fighting evil?
Our ancestors will be turning in their graves at this lillylivered lot pretending to stand their ground, lying and cheating with taxpayers money, to try and keep us in this rotten club, with its hidden agenda and ever diminishing standards.
What's in it for them if they persuade us to stay in by hook or by crook?

simmitc wrote:That's an opinion, not a fact. There are plenty of people who have a idfferent, just as valid, opinion. Part of the problem is that nobody knows for sure what will happen whether we stay or leave.

It stirkes me that if the EU insists on controlling 80% of rules for non-members then that just makes it a bully and not the kind of institution with which i would want ot be associated.

The concept of free trade is excellent (in my opinion) but the burden of all the other rules and regulations - and costs, is not.

******************
A fair Point - a bad choice of words on my part - what I meant to put over was the effect of readjusting to the Brexit. I checked on some figures and GB apparantly exports more to Germany and vice versa than any other EU member. This is in a customs free Zone and more than half of this traffic does not go through a German port, thus the logistics of a non direct customs controlled Import/Export arrangment is complicated. Nothing is impossible but.......What is factual in history is that customs tariffs and controls are detrimental to trade.

If you get involved with negotiations it is a standard trick to make a factual statement that can easily be misinterpreted and when this happens, you can hone in to win the Argument. So it is with 80% of EC rules. There is no bullying involved here, quite the opoosite. Member states agree with each other on Standardisation, tariffs, methodology for all sorts of things in all sorts of industries and indeed social things as well. If a "foreign" non eu member then wishes to Export or set up shop so speak he is obliged to abide by these agreed rules for which he has no influence or say.. This is quite normal in all economic Areas of the world and indeed a source of upcoming friction over TTIP. Of course, you do not have to comply , nobody is forcing anybody. But you cannot effectivley trade.

I would personnaly take great exception on the Assertion that the EU is "evil". I am sure it was only meant to be metaphoric. but Britain's days as a world power are gone. The 20th century european wars put an end to it and the US Americans capped the lid i.e. Suez crisis. It is lovely rhetoric about British bulldogs etc - times however have moved on - Britain is too small and too insignificant to be "great" on its own. Like our morris minors, they were great in their time, they are great now to own and drive but production has long ceased and in the end time will take its toll and they will either just rust away or be an interesting Museum relic of times past.

Too small and too insignificant ? You're talking about a great country, that for all its faults, I'm rather proud of!

That goes for all of the european countries. Individually they are of little consequence in world affairs.

Whether that is important or not?

i think e.u. would miss that 350 million quid they extract from G.B. spent on champagne and bottom of barrel countries. re john.

It's not just us that want to leave the EU, others are considering leaving as well so it's no bed of roses. I think the fundamental idea is sound it's just not been applied in the right way and treads on too many toes in the process.

john newton wrote:i think e.u. would miss that 350 million quid they extract from G.B. spent on champagne and bottom of barrel countries. re john.

GB found the money to bomb Syria.

Austerity only ever effects the working class, the rich ALWAYS remain rich regardless.

How can there be a democracy when there's no difference between either party, most mp's are public school educated - 75% of the baskets are millionaires on £80k + a year - explains why Jez is so unpopular, he might upset their gravy train!

amgrave wrote:It's not just us that want to leave the EU, others are considering leaving as well so it's no bed of roses. I think the fundamental idea is sound it's just not been applied in the right way and treads on too many toes in the process.

you are junping the gun hier - nobody knows if "you" want to leave the EU until the Referendum actually takes place. It may well be that "you" do not want to. Certainly there is a General political swing to the right in europe and Britain is just one of those countries. The EU is a very convenient scapegoat for all their Troubles but, if I may permitted a sweeping Statement, these problems are usually home made and it is the EU which becomes part of the solution, not part of the Problem.
Yes, very sweeping, but it is only a Forum!

john newton wrote:i think e.u. would miss that 350 million quid they extract from G.B. spent on champagne and bottom of barrel countries. re john.

For the record it is 250 mio per week , which includes the massiv rebate the UK gets.

Be interesting to see who's correct when we leave!

Nichol.
You are quite right but I was speaking for myself as it was my piece and not the country as a whole, no one knows how the vote will go yet the poll's still show it as even. I was just making the point that we are not the only country thinking of leaving.
I don't know where you get the idea the vote is for or against the EU's political standing either be it a swing to the right or left. Most people I know the gripe is about identity and freedom to make our own rules and that is why we want to vote. But while on the subject of politics and the EU the idea of putting earnings into a pot and sharing it back out again depending on a counties needs and then making rules that are common to all is bordering on communism. Different countries have different rules, they always have and always will because a lot depends on local (to them) circumstances. This is something the EU does not take into account when making decisions and has been a source of irritation for us many a time. The same happens in this country as we have a law covering the use of Crash Helmets on Motorcycles, what about the Sheiks with their rules on turbans.