Morris Minor Owners Club

jonathon wrote:As we are only waiting for a delivery time and not a production time,

Actually Jonathon, if this is the case, what's causing the delay?

If someone provides parts previously supplied by other manufacturers then you are by the use of the word previous implying that he is now the sole supplier. If he chooses to distribute through several traders then he will charge them a fee to cover his costs and make a profit. The traders will mark up to get their profit.
We therefore have a monopoly at the manufacturing stage and competition at the retail stage. The only one who loses out is the customer who has to pay the marked up price.

No, if there is competition at the retail stage, then each retail outlet will try to better its selling price. Look at supermarkets as an example..

So then we are in the same old spiraling problem of producing the goods more cheaply and in my experience this means to a lower quality. The supermarkets do not lower their prices out of the kindness of their hearts they are only able to do so by pinning the producers to the minimum possible profit or indeed in some agricultural establishments they sell at a loss. This is why the supermarkets are buying up farms etc.You only need to look at the short cuts that the food industry take to see potential problems ie BSE, poultry pumped up with water and steroids etc etc.

The supermarkets do not lower their prices out of the kindness of their hearts

Bear in mind that supermarket profits are spiralling up when average earnings and employment rates are spiralling down... And producers go out of business because of big retailers cost pressures.

However as regards front suspension parts, as there's only one producer and they have slipped up VERY badly on their own supply chain, a rival producer is long overdue IMHO.

Jonathon/Ray, please don't get me wrong, I don't condone this, its just the way things are. Also please remember that it is fed by us the consumer. How many times do you see on here for example, Who's got a .......... going very cheap please'

After this spirited discussion thanks Jordan for having a look at production.

Apart from professional restorers is there such a demand for swivel pins?
Say each roadworthy Minor averages 5,000 miles per year then a well greased swivel pin ought to last 70,000 miles or am I an undue optimist

"Well greased" being the operative words

yes keep em well greased
mine are the originals and are fine
and then lucky i managed to get hold of some new old stock ones a few years back

So, how many miles have they done?

Next time I am down in Southam I will pick them up. Just the problem of getting it scanned then...

It's A2 (?) sized pasted on hardboard.

mine have done 69000 miles
has had new trunnions a few years back
i bought the car from the man who had bought it from new, and he has never changed the kingpins

Judge wrote:Jonathon/Ray, please don't get me wrong, I don't condone this, its just the way things are. Also please remember that it is fed by us the consumer. How many times do you see on here for example, Who's got a .......... going very cheap please'

My point exactly

So the answer is in your hands

........ and my answer?

Judge wrote:

jonathon wrote:As we are only waiting for a delivery time and not a production time,

Actually Jonathon, if this is the case, what's causing the delay?

Not my hands, Bill.
Not sure Bill, we hear several versions of what has happened with these swivel pins, so I can not offer a definitive answer.
I would suggest that the commissioning company had a problem with the castings. To find another company to produce replacements has its own hurdles to jump. Firstly the production run is quite small, so I'd assume tat the casting company would require the customer to fit in with their existing word load, this might mean a sizable delay in the production of the swivel pins. You then need to commission and fit in with the machine shop, where yet again delays may be sizeable.
Even if the MMOC became involved in commissioning these items, I'd doubt very much if they could be produced in the short term and at the price that was current with the previous supplier.

Also please remember that it is fed by us the consumer.

I couldn't agree more. However in the supermarket's case they are responsible for extreme pressures on the producers, and often with Minor parts it can be the other way round (e.g. a major parts producer increasing their prices without warning faster than the parts trader can update their catalogue prices)
The parts retailers are all in competition with each other so I'm not surprised they rarely work together with each other - but if that was acheived, then maybe the producers could be pressured to make parts to an acceptable standard.

At the moment I'd guess that if one trader rected rubbish parts from a major producer, then they'd be left without parts to sell and their customers would just use a rival trader who was prepared to sell inferior parts.

Again I think the answer is in our hands, basically we don't complain enough. And having been a Warranty Manager for 23 years I speak with some experience.

Bill, I think you are correct but in the case of Minor parts, the manufacturers either do not care or would simply cease production as our particular market is very small.
Some traders are taking action by commissioning their own parts production. However they have to keep their profit margins very low otherwise the buying public would not buy. A problem ,as the setting up cost and investment levels are quite high and in many cases the part produced is not an immediate seller and may well be on the shelf for years.
Its a catch 22 problem, as some of the parts manufacturers do not care about quality, or have had to save on quality to be able to produce items that will sell to,a buyer who constantly want bargains.If you complain then the product might just disappear, with no alternative, the same will happen if you boycott or refuse to buy certain items.
I'm not saying dont complain, just complain to the right people, ie the manufacturer, as the supplier has no real bargaining power.
As Ray has mentioned, manufacturers are increasing their prices more often, normally upwards, largely due to their own increasing costs, ie raw materials, electricity,gas and transport costs, not to mention wages.
We have experienced long delays in receiving certain steel, ie CDS11 tube or plain old EN8, EN16T billets, vital materials for our kits. But Chorus has reduced output by 30% and the steel stockists can not afford to stock the quantity and range of products, so some parts are now almost special order.
I'd just err on the side of caution, in that too much complaining might just mean no parts at all, I know it is frustrating and goes against the grain, and should not be the case, but it might just happen.

As I said, the answer is in our hands.
You have given one possibility as the result of too much complaining, but what about a scenario as the result of not complaining, i.e. a customer buy’s a part, it fails within a very short time (remember the problems I had with speedo cables, dynamos and alternators?), he/she doesn’t complain but simply buys a replacement. Then that replacement fails, etc, etc. Result, customer loses faith and possibly moves away from Morris Minors, manufacturer is unaware of a problem so does not carry out corrective action, more customers have the same problem and also move away from Minors, finally both suppliers and manufacturers go out of a business as a result of no more demand for that part.

PS It's no good complaining direct to the manufacturer, it is the supplier with whom you have a contract.

PPS About my alternator problems? Looks like I need another one. Anyone want to buy a Morris Minor

PS It's no good complaining direct to the manufacturer, it is the supplier with whom you have a contract.

Yes this is true and a complaint to the supplier is a must, but often you will just receive a replacement and your old part will either go in the bin, be sold on cheap at Rallies . Unless you contact the maunfacturer then nothing will happen. Panel companies do not want returns.
I raised the issue of incorrectly produced front panels last year, but there has been no recall from either traders or manufacturer so I anticipate that there must be about 100 plus still out there that are faulty.
From my side of the fence, think on this, we fit a new front panel, (requires modification= extra cost to customer) we fit a new grill surround,hockey sticks and top chrome, assemble this perfectly greased up etc etc and the front panel painted. A few months down the line the car is brought back with rusty chrome and the grill surround peeling or turned black. We are responsible for the replacement of the parts as we have purchased them so the panel is removed re assembled with new parts (the same as before, but we have now incurred a few hours labour @ £35ph say £105. We can send the rusty bits back with a complaint and hope that we have free replacements or a refund. However we can not claim the labour cost from the supplier. So we loose money, all adding to the pressures already being dealt with regarding poor fitting panels and sub standard parts, which eventually makes one ask is it worth being in business at all.
There is a way around this problem though and its to get the customer to pay themselves for the parts , taking us out of the 'claim' loop, but probably disapointing the customer that they then pay us the £105 plus Vat to replace the parts they bought. Good for business? , not at all, keeps us in business ?. yes it does ,but for how long? and its not a route I would want to take.
With this Minor market ,do not assume that the trade have a wide choice of whom to buy from, and each trader will (or should ) make a judgement as to the quality of goods they supply. But if the only goods are known to be sub standard, but, the only type available, and the public are demanding the parts, what do they do then? and if they do the right thing and not supply sub standard parts, how are you to fix your car.
Its fine having high morals over the spares mess but I doubt very much that the manufactures will change their spots. If they do (hopefully listen) the I'd expect a rapid rise in costs, which will probably send more Minors to the scrap yard or only allow for well healed ownership.