Silly Brakes question ..

[JustinMinor1000]

So .. Pods saga continues ..

I replaced both back wheel cylinders and the pipe connecting them .. I took the car to the "Fastfit" place over the road to have her new wheels and tyres fitted and got them to bleed the brakes (It's a horrid job and at 14.99 well worth paying someone else to do ..)

Before the bleed pod needed one stroke on the brake pedal (to the floor) and then she would stop halfway down the second stroke.

The same after the bleeding ..

Could I really have adjusted the brakes that badly ? I thought they were on the very "Cusp" or do I have a more serious problem ?

Justin

[rayofleamington]

the rear cylinders can not be bled by using the bleed nipples
The bleed nipples are on the pipe union, not the cuylinder so you'll only bleed the pipe.

To get an improvement, slacken of the brake adjusters so the piston can move as much as possible. Then use the brakes a lot - as the piston moves in and out, the air should get flushed out of the cylinder. The banjo on the pipe connector needs to be oriented so that the bleed nipple is upright. Then the air will get trapped under the bleed nipple and can be removed by bleeding.
This may need to be repeated a few times.

The best way with new rear cylinders is to ensure they are full of fluid by priming them before fitting!

Good luck - it's not so hard once you've done it a few times. If you can use an inspection pit, bleeding the brakes becomes much less hassle.

The problem is doubled if you have new shoes as well - you won't get a good pedal until the shoes are properly bedded in (much worse than with disk brakes)

[bmcecosse]

Good suggestions - but also worth going round them all again - adjusting up first (they bed in quickly) then a wee bleed at each corner. Best if you have an assistant to do the pumping while you open and close the nipples.

[JustinMinor1000]

the rear cylinders can not be bled by using the bleed nipples
The best way with new rear cylinders is to ensure they are full of fluid by priming them before fitting!

Which brings me to ask why I broke the first law of Mog ownership ..

"Thou shalt ask at the font of all knowledge regardless of the fact that it "Looks easy" and You've "Done it before on a Landrover"

Arrgh

Thanks Ray Do you think I should just take it back to the fast fit place and get my 14.99's worth ?

[Onne]

Well, you could try that, after all you didn't get what you paid for!
but that is just my tuppence worth

[rayofleamington]

Which brings me to ask why I broke the first law of Mog ownership ..

"Thou shalt ask at the font of all knowledge regardless of the fact that it "Looks easy" and You've "Done it before on a Landrover"

nooo...
surely the first law is to get stuck in regardless - the best way to learn DIY is by doing, not talking about it.
Certainly keep your ears pricked for useful information and by all means ask if something baffles you, but if too many folks asked everything in detail before opening the toolbox this board would become rather heavy!
Just pat yourself on the back for having fitted the cylinders and roll your eyes at the poor location of the bleed screws. Any air in the rears should eventually work its way to under the bleed screw during normal operation, so repeated bleeding will catch most of this, but to get good bleeding on 'dry' rear cylinders can just be a pain to start with.

[bmcecosse]

If that's the case - I wonder how they managed at the factory ? I have to say i have never had any touble with this.
But a basic principle of car maintenance is - avoid any Fast or Kwik place like the plague!! Indeed I only ever visit a garage for the dreaded MOT test - otherwise, never!

[Cam]

But a basic principle of car maintenance is - avoid any Fast or Kwik place like the plague!! Indeed I only ever visit a garage for the dreaded MOT test - otherwise, never!

Agreed. Same here.

[rayofleamington]

If that's the case - I wonder how they managed at the factory ? I have to say i have never had any touble with this.

The original parts probably didn't trap nearly as much air in the cylinder as the parts we get nowadays. I expect the pattern parts are the worst for this as the seal is further down the piston.

[JustinMinor1000]

If that's the case - I wonder how they managed at the factory ? I have to say i have never had any touble with this.
But a basic principle of car maintenance is - avoid any Fast or Kwik place like the plague!! Indeed I only ever visit a garage for the dreaded MOT test - otherwise, never!

I would agree .. except .. that the manager at Motorway tyres in Henley-on-Thames is a gentleman called David who has been around for quite a while and has no less than five mini's all of which he has rebuilt .. (besides the obligatory cooper he also has an Innocenti).

The only problems I get are when He's not there Which he wasn't when they did the brakes .. I might take it back when he is

[bmcecosse]

Good idea !

[JustinMinor1000]

the rear cylinders can not be bled by using the bleed nipples

So .. Larry and I spent an hour and two litres of brake fluid bleeding the bleeding brakes ..

I also took it for a three mile drive with the handbrake on .. (On the basis that the heat would expand the air thus giving me bubbles in me nipples)

The pedal now travels to the floor before it stops ..

HELP !!

Should I just give up and rebuild the whole shebang and prime them ? Or a blowtorch on the cylinders ?

[rayofleamington]

how well adjusted are the shoes?

[JustinMinor1000]

how well adjusted are the shoes?

Well .. It's hard to say .. I take them as far as they can go and then go back to the last "Click Stop" ... So I ASSUME they are correctly adjusted ..

[bmcecosse]

Ahh - but sometimes - on certain shoes - the adjuster can fetch up against the edge of the shoe before the shoes are fully in contact with the drums. To set the rear brake sproperly - first loosen off thye handbrake cables - then adjust up the shoes - then re-adjust the cables.

[JustinMinor1000]

Ahh - but sometimes - on certain shoes - the adjuster can fetch up against the edge of the shoe before the shoes are fully in contact with the drums. To set the rear brake sproperly - first loosen off thye handbrake cables - then adjust up the shoes - then re-adjust the cables.

I will try this as soon as the rain stops ..

Out of interest from my description of bleeding the brakes (operating them 20 times as hard as possible and then bleeding) and the "Heat Treatment" repeated for two litres of brake fluid can we consider that bleeding is no longer an issue ?

[rayofleamington]

can we consider that bleeding is no longer an issue

good question!
I'd consider everthing still open (including completely unrelated faults) until the brakes work properly again

It's definately worth to check that the adjusters don't foul on the shoes - not just on the new one but all 6 adjusters.

If you get really desperate, bleed all 4 corners and adjust all the shoes until the drums are tight - if the pedal is still naff then you've got one of those yukky problems that nobody wants

[JustinMinor1000]

can we consider that bleeding is no longer an issue

good question!
I'd consider everthing still open (including completely unrelated faults) until the brakes work properly again

It's definately worth to check that the adjusters don't foul on the shoes - not just on the new one but all 6 adjusters.

If you get really desperate, bleed all 4 corners and adjust all the shoes until the drums are tight - if the pedal is still naff then you've got one of those yukky problems that nobody wants

Yes .. I totally get where you are coming from .. Closeing up the adjusters at the front is probably a good idea anyway ...

Is there any possibility that this is a master cylinder related problem ?

[bmcecosse]

If no bubbles are coming out - they don't need bled !

[Cam]

If no bubbles are coming out - they don't need bled !

Either that or the air is trapped which can be a right pain to shift.