My steering rack is in the way!

Post by **aussiemike** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:18 pm

Hi all, basically to cut to the chase my problem is thus. The new engine and box I am currently fitting are causing me a few problems. The box is alot bigger than the stock moggy one and to fit it at a decent height in the transmission tunnel I am needing to move the rack. Anyone ever doen this? I know people must have when fitting v8's etc so hopefully one of you clever pumpkins can help out with advice.
I dont really want to fit a front clip from another car.
thanks for any help.
cheers,michael.

Post by **wanderinstar** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:28 pm

Hi Michael, Seem to remember seeing a photo of a Minor fitted with a Fiat Twincam and box. That had the same problem and the remedy was to cut a piece out of bellhousing. If I can find the photo I will send it to you.
Ian.

Post by **aussiemike** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:35 pm

Hi that would be great to see the photos. I was kinda thinking the same thing about cutting some out of the belhousing so that my engine doesnt scrape on everything on the road! Have to see how much of the bellhousing my clutch takes up.
thanks, michael.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:44 pm

Firstly, what engine and box are you fitting as it's probably been done before. Fiat twincams have a section taken out at the top of the bell housing to clear, and I did the same with an mgb box years ago with no adverse effects.
If your engine is really large, then the rack can be moved back, but new steering arms need made up along with fabricating work in the bulkhead area to mount it. Nothings impossible.
Remember engine weight as they sit forward of the axle line in a minor which is not too good for handling.
V8's really need new front suspension, and there are loads to choose from, or make your own - see MM section - MM project as I'm doing that just now.

Pete

Post by **aussiemike** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Hi I am fitting a mazda 12a rotary engine and a fc mazda rx7 gearbox. I am recieving the engine on teusday so will see how much room there is to cut and shut the box.
Pretty much everything on the traveller is changing. Brakes, pedal box, diff, front suspension.
cheers for the help. michael.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 8:51 pm

Remember and post pics of build to inspire others.

Cheers

Pete

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:00 pm

Cut and SHUT the box? On the Fiat conversions I've seen, the bellhousing is left with the slot for the rack open.

Post by **aussiemike** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:03 pm

Hmm leaving the slot open might be ok but I would be woried about crap getting in on a rainy and muddy road.
Yes I hope to be taking loads of photos.
cheers, michael.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:30 pm

Don't worry about that - isn't really a problem - it's well shielded by rack etc, but make sure there is drain/hole/gap at the bottom to let anything out.

Pete

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:04 pm

Even the standard 1098 gearbox has a slot cut in the top to clear the rack. Ok I think when new this has a plug in it - but how many still have that now ! It's extra clutch cooling.

Post by **bigginger** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:07 pm

Well, it has an oval hole in it which ends uo an inch or so away from the rack when it's installed, presumably to prevent the possibility of the rack and box clashing when the engine/box move on the rubbers. The Fiat conversions need a rather more substantial slot cut to fit in without having to relocate the rack.
a

Post by **jonathon** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:32 pm

We always make it a policy to refabricate a channel section into the Fiat and K series bell housings. This is to replace the strength that is taken away when the internal fins are removed. These are constructed fron 3mm alloy and welded into place.

Post by **aussiemike** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:03 pm

ok so having spent most of today,( and a few more hours on it yet) I have come to the conclusion that the bellhousing on the box isnt actually fouling the steering rack. It is more the clutch fork as it protrudes from the top of the bellhousing. The box, whilst quite large acually fits really well other than the above problem. I did have to cut out a bit of the tranny tunnel just in front of the handbrake lever.
So anyways. Hopefully I will get some photos done to show everyone. Thanks for all the help.
Biggest problem with conversion will be wiring in the future as the previous owner was wire mad!!
cheers, i am back off to the garage.

Post by **plastic_orange** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:04 pm

Yes, I can understand why you do this Jonathon, but us home builders usually get away with it - depending on how much power you have though!

Post by **Wal** » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:20 pm

Hi,
I cut and channeled the gearbox for my Fiat Twin cam but when I uprated the clutch it fouled the channel so I cut it out and it doesn't seem to have had any detrimental effect.

Regards,
Wal

Post by **aussiemike** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 8:08 pm

Hey all, random update, the engine is in and the box also. The engine sits in very low as the clearance issues with the steering rack. So now it looks like the sump will be only about 6 and a half inches from the road surface. So I was thinking about a rather radical idea.
Instead maybe of dry sumping, which costs loads, I thought possibly of shortening the depth of the sump by about 3 inches by cutting it and also cutting the oil pick up to suit the new depth. Now to make up for the loss of sumpage I figured I could make a tank to sit in the engine bay and to go on the oil return line between the oil clooer and the engine. If I get the height of it right then I can utilise gravity to return the oil to the engine. As in oil cooler to tank then engine all one step below each other. The tank could be roughly 2 litres in capacity with a breather in it.
Is this madness or does somehow it all make even a little sense???
PLEASE all opinions are welcomed and appreciate.
cheers, michael.

Post by **Innovator** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:14 pm

You can move the the rack up but you will have to modify its length to get the correct bumpsteer characteristics.

John

Post by **aussiemike** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:34 pm

Hi John, di you just mean make it closer to the bulkhead , if you like? or move it to possibly much further up and inside the cabin? Mind you even though I am not anywhere near my moggy I dont think moving it in the cabin is doable. Sorry silly suggestion.
By the way it was your website that got me hooked on both moggies and modifiyng them! Thanks for that.

cheers, michael.

Post by **paulk** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:38 am

Is it just me cos the phrase

****** Rotary Engine

Causes the small boy inside me to giggle

Will be very interested to see the outcome of this. Would also love to hear it running .

Post by **Wal** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:42 am

Michael,
3 inches sounds like quite a lot off the sump and will have an effect on the baffling in the sump. I had problems with clearance on my Minor and I cut about 1 inch off my sump and modded the oil pick up. Due to the shape of the sump this lost me about half a pint in capacity. By squaring the sump off, an oil cooler, remote filter I made up the loss. By then fitting an oil accumulator I don't have any problems.

While you have the sump off you might as well sort out some decent baffling and gates to help prevent oil surge and starvation.

As an added protection I decided to replace the bottom of the sump with a decent thickness of steel plate, so that I was able to almost build in a sump guard at the same time.

The sump also now sits above and behind the anti roll bar so this should get in the way first of anything coming head on at least.

Make sure you get the oil pick up right, too low and it'll suck the bottom of the sump, too high and you'll have oil starvation problems. I think, though I can't remember exactly and this could be wrong so don't quote me (I'm sure one of the others will qualify), that I used a between 1/8 - 2/8th of an inch gap between the bottom of the sump and the oil pick up.

Couple of other points:
1) Remember to shorten the dipstick
2) You could put a washer under the oil relief spring just to keep the pressure up a bit if you are worried about the reduced oil capacity.

Regards,
Wal