The only modification that I'm seriously interested in.....

[chickenjohn]

..........and the only one that can actually ensure the furture use of the Morris Minor as a viable means of transport:-

Forget performance mods and unnecessary improvements to braking or handling......

What we really need is conversions to run the Moggie on a combination of LPG and/or bioethanol.

.... and as long as it still goes "parp" when you change gear.

[rayofleamington]

The south americans are already using ~15% ethanol in their petrol...
I expect an a-series could be made to run fairly well with that.

LPG has already been done on a Minor but (AFAIK) I think it takes around 40,000 miles to recover the cost of conversion.

[Pyoor_Kate]

Aye, and despite me proding them periodically there's no government grant forthcoming for the modification (to run on LPG) of a classic car. I did try...

[paulk]

I realise this would be only suitable for a very few people but didn't someone fit a traveller out with electric motors and (presumably) lots of batteries?

I'm sure someone had some info yonks ago.

Ethanol on its own was used fairly widely in south america 10-20 years ago.
But european manufacurers couldn't use it without mixing it with petrol because it would not easily start below 8°C and as it is conductive you have to shroud all the engines eletrics to prevent shorts. The other problem is that you only get 60% of the equivalent fuel consumption if you use a 100% ethanol fuel.
California tried it a couple of years ago but I think it has fisseled out now

See, A level Physics projects are useful even 16 years on.

[woo]

When I did the JOGLE in 2000 a Dutch traveller taking part was fitted with an LPG conversion. I sort of looked into it then but as has already been said, there's no government help with the installation so It will take a loooong time to recoup the cost and also, since I was informed by an installation company that the calorific vaue of LPG is about 80% of petrol, it would seriously reduce my 37bhp of screaming fury!

[pskipper]

There's lots of websites out there on bioethanol conversions, apparently on older cars the main change is to increase the jets in the carb, put in hotter spark plugs, adjust the timing and you are away. The cold start problem can be fixed by an inline heater similar to those on diesel engines. Fuel efficiency compared to petrol is apparently counteracted by being the equivalent of a high octane fuel and by the fuel efficiency being averaged out over speed and load (if that makes any sense).
The main problem is that in older cars the plastics may not be compatible with ethanol (and it's harder to buy 80% - 100% ethanol compared to other biofuels if you are wanting to be environmentally friendly).

I've considered fiddling around with an A-series engine to make it run on ethanol but don't have anywhere to set up a fermentation/distillation set up to produce fuel (seeing as sugar beet is a cheep and easy source of sugar and available all year round in dried pellet form as an animal feed).

[ColinP]

but don't have anywhere to set up a fermentation/distillation set up to produce fuel (seeing as sugar beet is a cheep and easy source of sugar and available all year round in dried pellet form as an animal feed).

Just as well - you would have HM Customs & Excise around in a rush.

The regulations on ethanol production (either by distillation - of other means of concentrating it from wine strength) are horrendous.

Just think - Minor Moonshine

Colin

[paulk]

Found this while smurfing the nett

http://www.bio.hw.ac.uk/icbd/Newsletter ... r_2004.htm

Quite interesting about Bioethanol production then gets V V complicated about yeast extraction

[pskipper]

Just as well - you would have HM Customs & Excise around in a rush.

The regulations on ethanol production (either by distillation - of other means of concentrating it from wine strength) are horrendous.

No, I was thinking of doing it all above board! As it's not for consumption it would be much easier as you wouldn't have to separate out the impurities etc, and I believe there are subsidies going for green fuel production The only other alternative is to see if Jonathan can fit a Rover 200 diesel engine in using his K series conversion and then converting that to run off of vegetable oil!

[bmcecosse]

Wanderinstar on here runs on LPG! He did his own conversion as far as I know, and it works very well for him. Forget the bio thing - go LPG. It sells up here for 40p/litre at the moment. I had an LPG Vectra for a while - saved the cost inside a year and then ran for another 2 years till it started going BANG when starting - wife didn't like this (only did it with her) and so the car had to go. Search ebay for LPG - lots of kit on there - it doesn't need to be all that expensive.

[jonathon]

pskipper,

We are often asked if we do the diesel conversion, but as I explain, with the 1.4 K series offering 55mpg plus and the 1.1 K series nearly 75mpg why do you want a diesel?. They are a much heavier unit than the all alloy K series and the cost to develop a rwd version is prohibitive for the number of potential customers. If someone is prepared to front the required Rand D costs then, sure we would have a closer look at the commercial viability

[ColinP]

Paul,

Thanks for the article link - really interesting.
Basically, one can't get more than 12% ethanol (by volume) from fermenting sugars (just like the home brew wines)

To remove the yeast and other rubbish, you need to distill the ethanol off - to produce significant quantities you'll need a large still, source of heat, and cooling water. You also will need a licence from HM Customs & Excise.
(When I worked in an Analytical Lab we needed a licence for the still producing the distilled water - 4 litres per hour - and a regular inspection of the facility).

IF you're distilling alcohol, the smallest still I know that is licenced is Edradour distillery (Pitlochry - BMCEcosse any chance of a sample? )

You would also have to keep good security - some pepole will drink meths!

Colin

[chickenjohn]

Good, stuff guys! I'll do a search on bioethanol conversions, the garage down the roadf rom where I work does LPG conversions and sells LPG. There is no reason why you could not have an engine that runs on conventional petrol and/or bio-ethanol and/or LPG!!!

- according to future availabillity.

Local farmers have worked out that they can already convert their crops into bioethanol and sell it at 80p a litre- with future developments this could be cheaper, and they can also make a lot more money doing this than trying to sell their crops for food. The waste products from this and waste in general can be digested to give methane- which LPG converted cars run on quite happily.

Its only a mater of time before oil runs out or becomes prohibitively expensive, or the Muslin countries where most of it is obtained decide not to sell it to the infidel because of some silly cartoon fuss!!

Plus, driving a car on vegetable or waste derived fuel, you will actually have the net effect of removing carbon dioxide from the air. (Although I think CO2 as the cause of global warming has not been proved- its debatable).

Continuing to run a Morris Minor, being a simple, durable car with a flexible (to alternative fuels) low compression engine, could actually have a net beneficial affect to the environment, by conserving natural resources, by re-using them, and using fuel in such a way that net CO2 is removed from the air.

Hippies could have a sticker on their car "powered by sunshine".....

Jonothan, I agree- absolutely no benefit to fitting diesel engines (unless you have access to a lot of bio-diesel- or use chip oil), best to stick to the A series, IMHO.

[chickenjohn]

Good debate, guys!, I think that any shortcomings in these alternative fuels can be overcome with appropriate science and technology (additives, slight engine mods etc)...

0oh, and bioethanol is used in race cars, so there are still some hot Minor possibillities there- although I think the focus for development of mods has to be on sustainabillity.

[chickenjohn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4498934.stm

"One hectare of wheat produces about 29,000 miles of motoring,"

therefore, if you had a large enough back garden, you could grow your own petrol!!!!!

[wanderinstar]

As BMCECOSSE says I converted my Moggie to LPG a couple of years ago. Bought kit locally for £250 and fitted it myself. To combat slight loss of power from petrol I fitted a 1.75" carb and just lateley a skimmed Cooper head.
No problems with running and gas is 39.8p/litre.
Ian.

[asbomog]

So it seems possible, if not simple - but wanderinstar - does the Moggy still PARP when you change gear ?!

[chickenjohn]

yes, that very important!

[wanderinstar]

Yes it still PARPS when you change gear. In fact if it didn.t then I wouldnt have converted it. The PARP is the most important thing, isn,t it.
Ian.

[michel]

In the Netherlands we have a lot of experience in converting old-timers onto LPG. This is very popular here because al the cars older then 25 years are Tax exempt. Converting is not very difficult, the part that is hard to find is the piece that fits between the air filter and the carb. Maybe some members of the Dutch MMOC are able to help. The only thing what is very important is a lead free head. LPG burns hotter and cleaner than petrol. You’re valve seats disappear within 8.000 miles.

Cheers Michel