Roar! scratchy scratchy!

[Relfy]

I've got an unidentified horrible scratchy sound when I start up. Any ideas what it is? It doesn't go on for long, just after ignition. Not the starter motor I dont reckon...

[Blunt]

haven't a clue but the topic title reminded me of the Russ Mayer film "faster pussycat! kill! kill!"

sorry about that...Ill get me coat

edit: just had a thought...could it be a badly adjusted/worn fanbelt type squeal?

[Packedup]

Oops, realised I'd typed a load of rubbish there - Got things on my mind...

Anyway - Possible dry starter bearings/ sticking pinion. If the starter is sticking to the ring gear when the engine fires, it'll be spun over quite quickly, If the bearingfs are tired, they'll complain with s screechy groany noise.

So starter would be my guess.

[bmcecosse]

Aye - i think so too - starter sticking IN and not getting thrown out of engagement. This will quickly wreck the starter - so have it off and give it a good going over. Note - you should NOT oil the Bendix drive - it just picks up dirt and jams. Clean it well and then dry it off. A 'dry' lubricant will be fine - graphite or moly perhaps.

[rayofleamington]

From hearing it, I'm fairly sure it isn't a sticking starter gear - it sounds mre like the engine itelf is scraping until the engine speed pick up. (A sticking starter is normally also followed by a whirrrr as the starter gets spun up to a much higher speed than normal if it stays connected to the engine too long)

If you start with clutch depressed it is a lot worse (noise last longer) , but that may be because it take longer for the engine speed to build up (i.e. it struggles to start in the cold with additional friction from pressing the clutch, so it takes a while to get the engine going)

[Willie]

Is the sound there if the car is started after a brief stop or only there when
the car has stood for a long time? If it is a 'lack of oil' problem it would only
occur after the longer period of inactivity. (Are you sure it is not the fan belt)
Put some talc powder or chalk on the pulley and see if it disappears.

[rayofleamington]

El thinks it is worse after the car has been standing overnight - will keep ears open.
Doesn't sound like fanbelt as it is very metallic, although could be a dry bearing in the alternator...?

[Cam]

Just a thought but is there much slop in the crank endfloat? Being as it gets worse when the clutch is in? Or what condition was/is the clutch thrust bearing and is the clutch return spring in place?

[rayofleamington]

Clutch thrust bearing is good and the release spring and free travel are ok (changed clutch etc... in early Dovember 05)

[Cam]

Crank end float?

[Packedup]

From hearing it, I'm fairly sure it isn't a sticking starter gear - it sounds mre like the engine itelf is scraping until the engine speed pick up. (A sticking starter is normally also followed by a whirrrr as the starter gets spun up to a much higher speed than normal if it stays connected to the engine too long)

You say whirr, but I've certainly heard screech. Only on very tired motors though, and they've still gone on for ages.

I suppose alternator/ generator bearing is also possible, but wouldn't that then show again at many-o-rev, or is the engine too loud (or even too gently driven..) to hear it?
What about when it's turned over on the handle? Might give somewhat more of a clue?

[bmcecosse]

Pop the fan belt off before starting - is it still doing it ?

[rayofleamington]

Hmm - yes ok, you can probably guess where the noise came from....

However it wasn't the bendix - it was the starter motor housing itself which had come loose allowing the whole thing to move around.

[bmcecosse]

Not unheard of - for speed of removal I only use one bolt to hold the starter (the top one). Not come loose on current cars - but it did happen on a Mini some years ago.

[Onne]

Why only one bolt? I know it is twice the work to unbolt, but surely there are two for a reason

[Multiphonikks]

Not unheard of - for speed of removal I only use one bolt to hold the starter (the top one). Not come loose on current cars - but it did happen on a Mini some years ago.

BMC, I once had a starter come loose because one of the bolts had fallen out. The other one sheered off going up the M5. Luckily I had the good sense to stop to investigate the horrible noise that Hebe was making.

I'd recommend in my own experience that you should always use two bolts to hold the thing on! There's quite a lot of force when that starter is being used!

[bmcecosse]

Yes - but it sits nicely into a recess in the backplate so I judged one bolt - up really tight - was enough. But of course they provide two bolts for a good reason.

[Packedup]

Because of the recess so long as it's tight the motor can't pivot around on the other bolt. Although because the recess/ lip aren't a perfect fit, I'm sure over time there's enough miniscule movement to start working the one bolt loose. Also the starter won't be held perfectly square that way, and a lot more strain will be put on the housing too.

I've often popped one bolt in tight when I think the starter may have to come off again for any reason, but I'm not sure I'd run a car on the road like that for long, if at all. Don't much fancy the starter being dragged and bounced down the tarmac on the end of a bit of wire!

[bigginger]

Just carry a spare one in the boot, then it'll NEVER happen...
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