Rolling rolling rolling. 86 horses under my bonet!

Post by **KirstMin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:28 pm

Hello everyone. I had a great few hours with Peter Baldwin of minimiglia fame (he's won it 5 out of the last 6 years). He runs a rolling road in Wimpole nr Cambridge and has been tuning minis and classics (as well as others) for 50 years.

I can't believe what a difference he has made - by the end my car had 86 BHP (flywheel) @ 5000 rpm. Jeez it pulls like anything from 2000 rpm; I just cannot believe the difference it made. I am staggered!

Now all I need to do is sort this damn vibration out and I can enjoy it

Post by **Matt** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:49 pm

sounds good, what have you got @ the wheels? (and what did it have at the begining?)

Post by **KirstMin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:59 pm

hiya, I dunno @ wheels because they didn't calculate it there. I think you lose around 15 - 20% though. But all quoted BHP's are done at the flywheel I believe.

When I went in I was up to about 70 BUT that was very,very patchy. The carb had a fuel filter in it that was restricting the flow and so at 5000rpm it was being starved. Now it just pulls all the way through.

And I thought with the cam and head I put on/in that I was done for power increases but this was the most dramatic change to date.

Post by **Matt** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:42 pm

If its a rolling road it will work it out at the wheels! For a proper accurate flywheel power you need to take the engine out and put it on an engine dyno (im 99% sure of it)... sure that isn't power at the wheels? or a guess based on power at the wheels? (remind us what spec you are running..)

Post by **iambiggles** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:46 pm

blimey! thats pretty impressive - winSU calculated it at around 80bhp, so you've got a bit more than that even. Down to good headword and a good cam I expect.

What needle did they use in the end?

Post by **KirstMin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:55 pm

You're confusing me now

its a 1275 A+ block with a stage 1 kit (HIF 44, alloy inlet mani, SS exhaust etc) a stage 3 cylinder head and phase II (fast road) cam from morspeed (re-profiled kent 286).

I'd expect it to be a flywheel figure.

Post by **KirstMin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:00 pm

iambiggles wrote:blimey! thats pretty impressive - winSU calculated it at around 80bhp, so you've got a bit more than that even. Down to good headword and a good cam I expect.

What needle did they use in the end?

Hi mate, yeah Peter Baldwin was imressed. I reckon its because the cam is a bit wilder and Simon is known for doing decent head work.

I'll have to look at the receipt for the needle number because I can't remember. it was almost the same as the BDK I had in there but it was running a little lean when cruising so he changed it ever so slightly.

The RR is well worth it though because its a completely different car now!

Post by **Matt** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:04 pm

winsu suggests 88 hp for me

Post by **bigginger** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:08 pm

On Top Gear, something was muttered about the RR working out power at the flywheel by measuring drag as the engine decellerated, ie, it measures power at the road wheels first.How true that is, I don't know

Post by **KirstMin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:19 pm

Matt wrote:winsu suggests 88 hp for me

You are a strong man then Matt

Have you been eating spinich?

I think it depends on what cam you put in but as the cam I have isn't there exactly - being re-profiled by morspeed and more drivable low down than the Kent 286 - it's got to be a guide.

Post by **KirstMin** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:20 pm

KirstMin wrote:
Matt wrote:winsu suggests 88 hp for me
You are a strong man then Matt Have you been eating spinich?

I think it depends on what cam you put in but as the cam I have isn't there exactly - being re-profiled by morspeed and more drivable low down than the Kent 286 - it's got to be a rough guide.

I would have been pleased with 80 though.

Post by **Matt** » Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:55 pm

spinich? eugh nasty nasty stuff!

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 7:26 pm

Excellent power output - and PB certainly knows his stuff - he's been racing Minis 'for ever'. Did he attend to your car himself ? Indeed the RR measures power at the wheels - they then cut the engine and measure the drag on the RR as it all coasts down - and from this can work out an approx flywheel power figure. At the end of the day - it's the performance that counts - the power figure is for Pub Points! Interested to know what needle ended up in there!

Post by **Skeggysteve** » Tue Dec 13, 2005 8:08 pm

BMC,

You are right Peter Baldwin has been around, making Minis go very fast and winning everything for 'ever'.

BHP at the flywheel doesn't mean that much it is power or more importantly drivability at the wheels that matters!

"Pub Points" I 'helped', many years ago, a guy who had an engine built for his Dome sportcar (ex LeMans). Yank V8, 7.4 ltr, 596bhp and the best bit 596lb/ft.
Ah, memories

Post by **KirstMin** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:22 pm

bmcecosse wrote:Did he attend to your car himself ?

Hi there, yep he did, he's the only one at the Wilshires Garage who works with the RR. He is a really nice man and made the 2 hours enjoyable. Also, I live in North London but realised that it would take me less time and cost me less (£60 ph rather than £75ph) to get to Cambridge than the only other RR i know in South London! The M11 is also more fun than London Traffic

bmcecosse wrote:At the end of the day - it's the performance that counts - the power figure is for Pub Points!

Definitely, I dont really care about the figures, its the fact that I can now feel the benifits of what I have done and it makes the 3 days I spent in a cold barn seem worth it!

bmcecosse wrote:Interested to know what needle ended up in there!

Right, I'll look at my receipt and let you know. It was almost identical to the BDK but ran a little richer whilst crusing at low speeds.

He did a whole load of jiggerypokery including a few things to bear in mind:

1. Removed the vacume advance and plugged it at the carb because the dizzy didn't have enough spring and was not advancing correctly.

2. Took the carb apart to find a little fuel filter that was being screwed down (and crushed) and blocked the fuel flow - the car was being starved of fuel at 5000rpm or when you put your foot down.

3. Bent my accelerator up because with my foot down I still had about 1/4 " throttle left! Apparently this is very common

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:58 pm

Nice

All with a 1275 eh? *grins manically*

*(don't be giving me ideas now)*

Post by **Cam** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:09 pm

Nikki, I thought your Rover was injected? or were you talking about Hebe?

Post by **KirstMin** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:19 pm

Multiphonikks wrote:Nice All with a 1275 eh? *grins manically*

*(don't be giving me ideas now)*

hehe, yes! But by the time you've done all the modifications you need to make the damn thing safe it costs a fortune! I'm sure Cam can vouch for that as he is sure to have spent a pretty penny on his (engine alone!) too.

In fact I dont know what Cari cost you but I reckon it'll be less than I've spent on mine in the last year! I WILL get some piccies up soon but I'm looking for a more appropriate backdrop than the burnt out house in Tottenham that I live opposite

Post by **Cam** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:25 pm

Yes, mine has cost a lot of cash (which is the main reason I don't have any left now!

).

I have yet to get mine rolling road tuned, but it still managed a 7.6 second 0-60 with me fiddling with it... Yet another job on the list!

Kirstmin, the rolling road place charged you for 2 hours then? @ £60 per hour? where abouts is it?

Post by **KirstMin** » Thu Dec 15, 2005 12:49 pm

Cam wrote: I have yet to get mine rolling road tuned, but it still managed a 7.6 second 0-60 with me fiddling with it... Yet another job on the list!

Hi mate, that's super!! Mine had about the same power as a standard 1098 when I crawled in!

It's in a little village called Roysten just outside Cambridge. 2hrs @ £60 ph + any bits you need (needle etc). Basically though he said that it should really have been 1.5 hours but I had a lot of little things that were incorrect and we went over the allotted time. I reckon you'll have yours set-up from the start better than I did so it should take less time.

I know it’s not that close to you but I just made it a day out and Peter is one of the best known tuners in the business - he has won the mini milgia 5 out of 6 years.

Peter Baldwin works out of the back of the garage and can be contact on: 01223 207217.

http://www.wilshers-garages.co.uk

BTW: he has a 150BHP mini for racing and had it timed at 3.5 secs for 0-60 with a proper test (the one with a wheel out the back of the car). Phew!!