Sill and Cross Member repair

[Lux_Moggy]

Hello,
I have just got a 1968 2 door saloon.

I knew that it needed work on the sills. I have taken off the sill finisher and sill kicker.

I can see the outer sill is gone. The bottom of the Boxing Panel is starting to go. Should I repair or replace this? Is this a hard job?

I also think that the inner sill is going (if that is the part that is the same level as the outer sill and join to the boxing panel).

The cross member end could do with replacing.

Any advice for someone who has never done anything like this before?

Thanks
Iain

[paulk]

Assume that rust is Iceberg like. 9/10 's is hidden

If you start cutting out you'll probably find the floor edge is gone and the rear seat support tends to rust where the floor bends.

My best advice is to stick the car on it's side that will give you a much better view (I haven't done this yet and have the welding burns to show for it)

[rayofleamington]

My current resto sounded similar - have a look how much work was involved and it will make your eyes water!! (the iceberg principle really caught me out, as despite a lot of experience, I had my rose tinted glasses on)

click the link below for the PDC Minor resto....

[Lux_Moggy]

Hello,
Thanks for the advice.

How do I post pictures in post, so I can show, what I'm looking at. I feel alone in Luxembourg as there isn't a local club to ask for info or help.

From the time i spent looking at the car today. I think that i caught the rust before the iceberg started (well it'sa small one). The rust has confined itself to the sill forward of the jacking points.
Thanks
Iain

[bigginger]

Hello,

From the time i spent looking at the car today. I think that i caught the rust before the iceberg started.

I do hope so - we've all said that before... To post pics, you'll need to upload them to a server, then link to them using the IMG tags (buttons) at the top of the 'post reply' page. I can host them if you want/need.

[andrewsxt]

I had my rose tinted glasses on)

We`ve all got a pair of them, except maybe jonathon

[Chris Morley]

Iain, you'll be able to get all the help you need on here so your location shouldn't be a great disadvantage.

How do I post pictures in post, so I can show, what I'm looking at

You first need to upload the pictures to a website. Then right click on 'properties' and paste the photo's url onto the page. Highlight it then click the Img button.

The boxing plate always tends to go first at the bottom where it's attached to the inner & outer sills. If rust only affects a few small areas it should be OK to cut this back to sound metal & let in a repair section. Luckily this area isn't on show so some strengthening of the boxing plate can be a good idea and it doesn't really matter if the result isn't pretty. I wouldn't plate over all the round holes though as this would prevent the air from circulating.

If you need to replace the crossmember end you'll probably find a bit of rot directly above it in the floorpan. I did the same and basically hacked away all the rot and welded in a piece about 10 by 15cm. Luckily the floorpan was sound in all other areas.

The key to this is to remove all the corroded metal & to do one repair at a time to ensure that the body doesn't distort (which could happen if you cut away the crossmember end, sills & boxing plate in one go).

[chickenjohn]

Hello,
I have just got a 1968 2 door saloon.

-snip-
I can see the outer sill is gone. The bottom of the Boxing Panel is starting to go. Should I repair or replace this? Is this a hard job?

I also think that the inner sill is going (if that is the part that is the same level as the outer sill and join to the boxing panel).

-snip-
Thanks
Iain

if this is the piece at the same level as the outer sill you are referring to :-


its called the Floor Edge Panel (Inner Front) L/H!

the actual inner sill is the bit you can see from inside the car when you pull the bit of carpeting off.



Before wedling, I would remove all interior trim and brace the door gap!

[Lux_Moggy]

Hello,
Thank for the encouragement.

Andrew if you could host some picture for me, while I get me own web site, that would really nice. How should I get them to you?

From what John said. The inner sill is OK. It would be the Floor Edge panel which is starting to go.

If the cross member end is starting to go at the bottom and not at the top, do I need to replace it staight away or can I survive a few months with it.

Thank everyone.

Iain

[chickenjohn]

Iain, sounds good, like you are catching the rot at the right time!

If the inner sill had gone, then its a much more frightening job, involving a HUGE hole in the car and lots of bracing of the door gap and the pillars to the floors etc.

You could make a temporary repair to the crossmember, I know people who have butt welded in small sections and its passed the MOT and lasted a few years, not just a few months!

after doing all this welding, i would spray the whole area, inside and out of the sill with waxoyl, dinitrol or simmilar.

My method for welded reapir protection is to use weld thru primer on the pieces to be welded, then after welding, I give it a coat of zinc rich primer, then seam seal any welds or flanges where water might get in then a couple of coats of something on top (I have used Smoothright, but in future it will be Chassis black or stone chip), finally thin dinitrol inside the box sections and thicker wax outside.

[Lux_Moggy]

Hello,
I have got my own website area now. I have put togther at few pictures on a page.

After removing the front wing I think that I found the problem the Door Hinge Pillar has been patched in the past and not very well.



So everything below it is rusted. I think I should replace it.

Are there any other photo that I should take to work out what is to be done.

My home page http://homepage.internet.lu/Lux_Moggy/

Many thanks
Iain

[bigginger]

Hello,
Thank for the encouragement.

Andrew if you could host some picture for me, while I get me own web site, that would really nice. How should I get them to you?

My email address is 'myusername' @ 'myusername'.com - hope that makes sense!

[andrewsxt]

then seam seal any welds or flanges where water might get in

Does that mean John that not all welds have to be seams.

[Matt]

seam sealant is like a thick paint that fills up pinholes in welds.....

[andrewsxt]

Aha, think i read it wrong, thanks Matt.

[Lux_Moggy]

Hello,
Inspecting the car this afternoon, I think that I need the following panels.

1 x Door Hinge Pillar-Complete R/H
1 x Floor Edge Panel (Inner Front) R/H
1 x Outer Undersill R/H (2-Door/Convertible)
1 x Cross Member End (50cm) (Less Jacking Point)
1 x Jacking Point (For RP103/104)

Any others that I should think about ordering?

From what Chris said. I should do these panels one at a time. What order would you suggect that I do them in.

Also what is the best way to clean off old wax oil and dirt?

How do I cut out the old panel, and what perperation is needed be I start welding. I have never done any body work before. Am I getting myself into deep.

Mnay thanks

Iain

http://homepage.internet.lu/Lux_Moggy/
to see the rust and the panel as they are now

[SR]

hiya iain, may be helpfull to get a copy of "haynes manual ,purchase & diy restoration" by lindsay porter, its pretty good, the bits it dont show ,we can post pics for u,the car looks very good,steve

[Onne]

I can't help feeling lucky. I did once own a complete rustbucket though, a Simca 1301 automatique.

But my MM is truly solid... except some mine details, my sill is still rock solid, but I am going to replace it anyway, as it is strating to go bad.

[chrisd87]

That crossmember in the photos doesn't look too bad - mine looks quite a bit like that (even maybe a bit more frilly at the bottom) and the MOT man didn't mention it!

[Chris Morley]

I've used a combination of pliars, chisel and angle grinder to remove old panels. I think applying heat and a scraper / wire brush is usually the best way to remove old underseal, then a grinder or wire cup to remove paint & surface rust. This is time consuming and dirty work I'm afraid. The key to welding is to weld onto sound, shiny bare metal - ensuring that the metal isn't thin or holed due to corrosion on the other side.

Tap away at the crossmember end and see if there is any rotten metal. If it's sound metal then just scrape off the surface rust & underseal and paint the surface with a zinc-rich primer. You may find that the jacking point is falling off - personally I don't think they are worth replacing on an everyday car. If the top of the crossmember is sound and the floorpan is OK then there's little point doing anything else to it.

The photos indicate that your Minor doesn't need dramatic chopping. From what I can see I would probably first cut away all of the rotten outer sill and the corroded areas at the bottom of the boxing plate. Next ensure that the bottom of both door posts actually contain sound metal to weld the new outer sill onto (if there are rusty areas here you should be able to fabricate small repair sections rather than replace the whole panel). I would spot weld the outer sill onto the door posts then use a repair section to affix the inner edge of the sill to the boxing plate. This I would envisage as having the profile of an 'L' with the lower lip about 1cm wide and the longer lip being 2-3cm tall - this would be fitted flush to the boxing plate and should come up to the bottom of the circular holes or a little more.

It's debateable whether you should now spot-weld the whole thing (as built). UK MOT laws would require a continuous weld, BUT this area is enclosed under the sill cover so how would they ever know? It looks like the original spot welds on 1960s minors were about 1 inch apart so doing one every centimetre would be fine.

Once this is done the boxing plate area will be strong & you can cut away the inner sill with impunity. You may find that the edge of the floor panel is fine, in which case it's a simple case of cleaning the area, grinding off any old weld & welding the new sill onto it. New sills often have a bit of extra metal so you can decide where to place the edge . I had a similar situation with my traveller & I was very glad that I only bought the sill panels. Finally you can fabricate repair sections for the bottom of the 'A' post.

In the past I've fabricated crude repair sections from steel sheet using tinsnips, a hammer, a vice & a pair of pliars. Perhaps Cam , Steve or Ray (our most prolific welders) would be better to answer this point as my method was a bit primitive, having no metal shaping tools.