Another brake question

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:10 pm

Quite... Not anti-servo here, just haven't got round to fitting one yet - not the car with your kit BTW

Post by **aupickup** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:13 pm

bmc your comments regarding disc brakes should be banned are both childish and foolhardy.

they save lives!!!!!!!! try a fully loaded morris minor van with drums, and you have the feeling i am not going yto stop.

for me discs. only my opinion and my conditions of driving and use

Post by **bigginger** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:15 pm

There seems to be a bit of a theme developing here...

Post by **Packedup** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:40 pm

I've had both servo and non-servo versions of the same car one, and I have to say without the servo (which was an option when the car was new!) the disc brakes were dreadful - Heavy and generally not confidence inspiring. And a lot of the Minor disc conversions use the same calipers as these cars I had.

However, I still don't see the problem with drums. Some of my lariest driving was done in Minis with standard drums all round and the only time I had a problem was when I'd messed up the adjustment. And I never took things steady in those cars!

As for stopping distances sheer mechanical grip has improved over the years, with better tyre designs, suspension geometry, road surfaces... So it's unfair to blame the brake mechanism as the sole component for the changes, IMO.

I like discs because the fade point is higher up the scale, and there's no adjusting to keep the front end right. But if you're willing to get out the spanners every so often and do the routine servicing, I still believe drums are perfectly adequate, providing you drive to suit and don't pretend you're Schumacher down country lanes.

Post by **Onne** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:44 pm

Adjusting? I haven't adjusted my drums yet, not even once, and my car passed her (dutch) MOT without any problems!

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:45 pm

I think the fitting of a servo is a very personal decision. I feel that to experience the best from disc brakes a servo definately will help. I do not like the feel of discs without a servo as they seem too heavy and not as responsive, or delicate.

I would agree with that; it's a bit of an unfair comparison - Yugo non-servo disks against Marina Servo Disks (I'd comment on Carrie's brakes, but I'm under the belief they're still awaiting tweaking). - but I found the brakes on the Yugo terrible. It was like pushing against a brick, and when something did happen you didn't know about it until too late ;-/

The disk brakes on my mog, by comparison, are gorgeous. They're progressive, smooth and very effective.

Post by **wanderinstar** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:10 pm

Some people, myself included, cannot afford the £400-500 to fit a disc brake kit to there Moggie. I went the Wolseley route, great brakes, bolt straight on with no trouble. Part of the fun of owning a classic car IS rummaging around autojumbles and classic mag forsale ads for bits,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and as regards all the problems adjusting brakes and changing shoes.
If you dont want the problems. Buy a new car. Disc brakes, servos, turbos, sat nav £300 - 400 service charges all included.
Ian.

Post by **bigginger** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:23 pm

..and some people, MYself included, have spent a fair bit less money on a disc brake conversion, and fitted them ourselves. No desire whatsoever for a new car, turbo, sat nav or ANY service charges. The subject seems to upset you rather, but there's really no need for the last sentence - like I've said all along, you do what you want, but leave me alone to do what I want.

Post by **wanderinstar** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 7:56 pm

Andrew, Your right ,it does upset me a bit.Whenever anyone talks about fitting Wolseley brakes to a Minor there are aquite a few people who say how old fashioned it is and fit discs instead. I respect your wish to fit discs if you like, but it is a two way street, and I wish people would respect mine and other peoples wish to fit Wolseley or even heaven forbid Riley drums to their vehicles.
Ian.

Post by **jonathon** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:14 pm

Yes Ian, its as irritaring as those who harp on about servo's being banned, no need for some suspension upgrades, discs being over the top etc etc. Personally I think if you wish to fit different drums, thats fine, and I don't knock this choice, especiallly on the grounds of them being old fahioned. On the issue of discs being better brakes then this, is ,an argument I will uphold.

Post by **aupickup** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:21 pm

well each to their own, and their own particular driving needs and pocket.

what is good for one is not good for another and that is why we are human.

personally i like discs for my driving and a fully loaded van for work.
and what price is safty i wonder

Post by **wanderinstar** » Fri Nov 25, 2005 8:49 pm

Jonathon,
I remember the last time WE got into this discussion. It got rather HEATED and it didn,t FADE.
Ian.

Post by **jonathon** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:37 am

Sorry Ian, but I thought that issue had been resolved with an appology. If you feel I'm dogmatic please say, but I feel my comments are at least based on experience and knowledge, unlike some made on this forum.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:36 pm

I only suggested servos should be 'banned' with tongue firmly in cheek! However - many think it is a 'cure-all' to stick a servo on their very marginal brakes - spending loads of hard-earned dough in the process, and the end result is still marginal brakes with less pedal effort ! The real answer is to get brakes that actually WORK - ie lock the front wheels without a stupid amount of pedal force. It doesn't matter if it's drums or discs - as long as the wheels can be locked, then the brakes are working and will stop the car. Drum brakes will do this if in good order - only problem comes if you try to do it over and over again - then the standard drums will fade - so far my Wolseley ones have never faded , despite some serious up and down hill stuff during the summer, and discs of course are also designed to be less prone to fading - some more so than others. But either type of brake will stop the car just fine in normal motoring - provided they are in good working order. Those who can afford discs - good luck to you - but there is a much less expensive option which works just as well, and DOES NOT need an expensive servo ! The main problem with standard Minor braking is in fact tyre adhesion to the road - and this is where upgraded wheels and tyres can make all the difference.
BTW Jonathan - I rather suspect I was modifying Minor suspensions and brakes (and engines) while you were still in your pram !

Post by **aupickup** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:43 pm

yes ia gree a well set up original drum set up may be very good, but not as good as servo assisted discs.
i have driven moggies on ordinary drums and discs and i know what i prefer, this is not to every ones taste and i respect the veiws of others.

i have been driving moggies for a few years and started to learn to drive in one..
BTW when i bought my first moggie in 1968 there were brake upgrades then

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:46 pm

I upgraded my 'Rally' Minor to bigger drums in 1965 !

Post by **aupickup** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 7:48 pm

wow you beat me by 3 years

Post by **jonathon** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 8:08 pm

Bm, Not quite sure what you are saying re suspension and brakes in relation to my company.Are you insinuating that you are the fountain of knowledge, or that your personal mods have brought you success with your rallying. Does age bear any relevance on ability to create sucessfull modifications. I think maybe that today one needs to be a bit more professional in ones approach and responsibilities to ones customers(yes I know you were not trading)rather than the somewhat gunho attitude prevelant in the comments you make on this forum.However, I have never, put in doubt your knowledge or experiences with these topics relating to minors. My argument for servos is purley that I personally feel that they offer greater sensitivity to braking. I always recommend a servo when selling my kits, but I certainly do not get dogmatic about them. I do not critisise drums, standard or uprated, if the car is driven within it limits. Outside the standard spec I would always suggest discs.

Post by **wanderinstar** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:12 pm

Jonathon,
Yes mate it was resolved last time. I was just trying to bring a bit of frivolity into it, with HEATED and FADE. Obviously it went over your head, Not to worry, each to his own, be it discs or uprated drums.
All the best,
Ian.

Post by **jonathon** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:21 pm

Yes Ian I did understand your comments. Again the trouble with not using the smilies is that comments can have several meanings.

That's why I ended with a