types of disc brakes

[wibble_puppy]

hi guys

I gather that my van (ahem - shell ) was fitted with marina disc brakes at the front before I bought it. Servo fitted too.

A little while after I bought it last year the brakes started making the most amazing and entertaining noises, so I took the van to a "reputable" Minor specialist. He said the problem was being caused by seized calipers - the calipers weren't retracting properly so the shoes were constantly in contact with the hubs. He had the wheels off and showed me what he meant - it was taking a huge amount of force to get the calipers to retract.

He freed the calipers but warned me that it was likely to happen again. Sure enough they started making the same noise shortly afterwards; but as this was just before I took it off the road to be restored I thought *best Scarlett O'Hara impression*: "I won't worry about it today, I'll worry about it tomorrow..."

Both he and another Minor specialist have told me that this tends to happen with Marina discs and also that the parts are tricky to get hold of if they go wrong: both have recommended that I replace my Marina set-up with a Sierra-based one. It's fair to mention that both are in a position to sell me the new kit, and to charge me for fitting it, although in at least one case I don't feel that this is the sole reason for their recommendation. Although possibly "once bitten" recently it doesn't mean I am viewing all Minor specialists with the same "shy"ness.

Now someone who belongs to this forum has recently told me that they reckon that these stories about the problems which go along with the Marina set-up aren't necessarily true, and I needn't change to Sierras at all, just service the Marina discs etc and get it all working proper like.

What do you expert types think? Should I get my Marina-based system overhauled: or should I give up with it and switch to a Sierra-based set instead?

I don't know much about brakes but I do know how essential they are and am determined to get 'em right Also want a long-term solution if at all possible - so things like availability of parts is an issue - am planning to keep this van for the whole of my doddering old life

Grateful for all advice!

Juliet xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Pyoor_Kate]

Hrm.

Difficult one.

I guess it depends how much it costs to get the Marina disks overhauled. If it's anywhere near the cost of the (good) Ford Brake conversion then you might as well swing that way; if it's much less then I can say I've got Marina disk brakes and I had a similar problem a while back. They were repaired (read - copper grease applied to sliding surfaces) which has more or less completely cured it (there is a slight sticking sometimes which amounts to a slight 'eek' as I pull away occasionally).

I have also heard these rumours about the Marina conversion, but have not seen any evidence presented... I think the (good) Ford conversion is better engineered (so I'm told) - but if you've already got the Marina one and it can be made to work properly for not-that-much then it's probably fine

[Stig]

I've got the Marina setup and got new discs and pads from a local auto factors earlier in the year, I'd imagine there are places that would refurbish calipers too but mine just needed a clean up to get the pads to move smoothly. Disc brakes are "low maintenance", not "zero maintenance"; if I'd removed the pads and checked they moved freely from time to time I wouldn't have had to replace the discs!

Another source of Marina parts might be http://www.carparts-direct.co.uk/parts_ ... _cars.html

I imagine the Sierra brakes would have more stopping power but the Marina ones are quite good enough. I wouldn't change them meself.

[TerryG]

Have your marina hubs been machined to take the Minor wheels or do you have marina wheels fitted too?

[jonathon]

There is no great inherant problem with the Marina/Ital discs, they perform very well. There can be problems with the reconditioning of them, if its been done on the cheap. Contact someone like Brake engineering who supply my calipers for the Ford Kit, their products have always been firts class. By the way no one does a Sierra based disc kit anymore. They are all Escort based. I would definately read previous threads on this topic before you decide on your final purchase. Many people have had bad experiences in this field, so beware, and ask questions!!

[Packedup]

Remind me, does the Marina use the same front disc/ caliper as the Dolomite?

[wibble_puppy]

Have your marina hubs been machined to take the Minor wheels or do you have marina wheels fitted too?

I don't know the answer to that, Terry, as the conversion was done years before I bought the van. Is there a way I could tell, or do the years of motoring since the conversion imply that it must have been done "properly"?

Jonathon I shall take my short cut and ring you - be afraid, be very afraid

Thanks very much for your input Kate and Stig, very useful

juliet xx

[bigginger]

For what it's worth, Charlie Ware's still sell complete, new Marina calipers, AFAIK.

[Packedup]

To answer my own question, looking at the pics on ESM the Marina one is the same as a Dolomite.

So all I can asay is I've had three problems with sticking pistons, each and every time they've been on a car that's been stood for years. They're not the greatest of brakes in the world, but then what 2 piston solid (and quite small) disc setup really is? Considering the cars they were fitted to originally, they should be more than adequate for a 48hp 800kg or so Minor I'd have thought. And with a good clean of the sliding surfaces, and new pistons they should be trouble free for quite some time.

I think the real thing is they're going to cost a lot less to get right than a Ford kit would be, and they're still going to be better than the original fit drums all round.

[wibble_puppy]

I think the real thing is they're going to cost a lot less to get right than a Ford kit would be

you mean that getting the Marina discs put right is going to be cheaper than installing Sierra ones? Yeah that's got to be true. What about ongoing costs to keep 'em running and working well? And are the Marina parts going to carry on being freely available? as I've been told they are already difficult to get hold of (and difficulty = expense )

and they're still going to be better than the original fit drums all round.

yeah, not planning to go back to drums on the front

Cheers packedup dude

juliet xxxxxx

[simmitc]

Bearing in mind that you don't know the history of the conversion, it's quite possible that an earlier owner installed the discs & callipers but didn't modify the master cylinder. There's a small "top hat" rubber seal inside that keeps a reserve of pressure in the system for drum brakes. It should be removed for use with discs, otherwise the residual pressure coupled with the servo brings the callipers on, which can appear to be seized pistons. It would be worth looking at this before consigning the callipers to the rubbish pile. I drove one car for an owner where this was the problem and found that the brakes locked on after about 3 miles, and freed off after about ten minutes!

I've seen threads about cheap calliper reconditioning services, but have always paid more and got a really good job, with one set being on the car for over fifteen years with no problems (and who ever heard of a drum cylinder lasting that long on a Minor?). Make sure that the discs are within spec (replace when worn to < 6mm thick), check and replace the pads when worn, use copperease or similar and make sure shims and pins are in place.

You can see if the hubs have been modified for Minor wheels - the old stud holes are welded up and new holes drilled to one side. Also, you'll have 14 inch wheels whereas the Marina one are 13 inch.

If you do decide to go for the Ford kit, spend the money to get a decent one - alk to Jonathan. Also, if you go that route, can I please buy your old Marina bits.

Good luck.

[Alec]

Hello Juliet,

your first step is to see exactly where they are tight, and I suspect (being the pessimist I am, expect the worse and be pleased if it's wrong) that the problem is in the pistons so copper grease etc will not be the cure. You will need to strip down the calipers and assess their condition. I would imagine that pistons and seals would be available, from brake specialists (Their are one or two who deal in nothing else), as long as the cylinder is not corroded or pitted it will probably be economical to repair.
I use silicone brake fluid in my cars and believe that it helps extend the life of the cylinders. I know that it is not liked by a lot of people but you might like to consider it?

Alec

[Stig]

You can see if the hubs have been modified for Minor wheels - the old stud holes are welded up and new holes drilled to one side.

Not on mine (Grumpy's). They seem to have offset studs in elongated holes, well sort of. Hard to describe, but they're radially out from the originals rather than to the side of them. Anyway, 13" wheeles would be a give-away.

[Packedup]

Hello Juliet,
I would imagine that pistons and seals would be available, from brake specialists (Their are one or two who deal in nothing else), as long as the cylinder is not corroded or pitted it will probably be economical to repair.

Having seen pics, and knowing Marinas use the same pads as Dolomites, I'm now close to convinced they are the same unit. Which means parts are quite easy to get hold of, although high street motor factors are starting to list them as discontinued. The usual Triumph suspects (Rimmers, Canley, Quiller etc) should all stock them. So as you say, as long as the caliper bodies aren't corroded they should be cheap to do. I reckon about 50 quid for pistons, and a tenner for seals would do the trick - I've yet to see any where the pistons aren't losing their chrome (although this seems to happen "after" the seal, but is it worth cutting corners on brakes on a nut n bolt resto?).

Grand total of well under 100 quid, compare that to a different kit and I just can't see the point.

Besides, my 30 year old Triumph had the calipers unstuck when I put it on the road about three years ago, never did get round to rebuilding them properly, laid the car up a year ago, and after over 12 months stood they still work fine. So once properly done, they should be fine, IMO

[wibble_puppy]

thank you very very much for all that useful info guys

hopefully should have some (very) knowledgeable help on hand to advise and assist so should have no probs one way or the other

please keep your tips and opinions coming

juliet xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[bigginger]

Check out the cost of new before re-conditioning if you go the Marina route

[wibble_puppy]

Check out the cost of new before re-conditioning if you go the Marina route

Why so, big man?

[Packedup]

I reckon about 60 - 70 quid all in to get the bits and rebuild them yourself, cheapest calipers I've seen (recon) are about 45 quid each plus postage. Depends how critical that 30 or 40 quid is I suppose, I'd save it for something else but having shiny pre-done parts is always nice

[bigginger]

On the off-chance that it could save you cash, that's all

[wibble_puppy]

On the off-chance that it could save you cash, that's all

sorry dude my head is full and new bits aren't sticking to it

do you mean that if i want to stick with Marina discs then I might find that a new Marina set-up was cheaper than reconditioning the ones I've got?