Prop shaft U/J's

[sixdogs]

I know this subject has probably been covered in the past, but I would be grateful for more advice. Whilst checking the underside of my Series II, I felt the u/j's and there was quite a bit of movement (up & down) in the front one. There is quite a bit of noise and vibration and this is there when I knock the car out of gear also. I have not driven Minors for over 35 years, until I bought this car, so I have lost touch with what level of vibration is normal. Of course, once discoverd, it seems to have got a lot worse each time I have taken the car out since.

Can someone say what level of wear is acceptable, if any. Also, is it likely that the joint will disintigrate without warning and let the propshaft whip about loose under the car, with possible disasterous results.

I bought one of the Leyland manuals , which is confusing regarding the prop shaft, as it says that all Minors have the same shaft. It shows the joints being removed and overhalled. Well, mine must be a later type, as the U/J's are welded to the shaft and there is only one flange on the shaft at the rear. It would seem that the best solution is to buy an exchange shaft, which has been fitted with new joints and balanced.

I should have mentioned that the car has a 1098cc engine and box fitted. I don't know if the diff is original or not.

I would greatly appreciate some input from anyone who has been down this road before.

Kind regards, Clive.

[Cam]

Clive,

There are two UJs on the Minor's propshaft and they are NOT all the same. The very early ones had a flange on each end, but the later ones had a splined end for the gearbox and a flange for the diff end.

There should ideally be NO play in the UJs of you try to move them with your hands. Also, there should be very little (none ideally) play where the prop goes into the gearbox as this can be a source of bad vibration too.

The UJs are not welded to the shaft, they are held in by circlips.

If you have play in the UJs then get them replaced. Also check the output shaft of your gearbox for play (side to side) as running with a vibrating prop might have damaged the rear bearing on your gearbox.

[rayofleamington]

running with a vibrating prop might have damaged the rear bearing on your gearbox.

I'll second that one!
If it has been running out for a while you can even damage the nose of the prop as well as the (not very hard at all) bush in the back of the gearbox.
It is unlikely to let the propshaft break away when the bearings collapse completely as the other bits tend to hold it captive but gives around half an inch runout on the prop, so don't expect to get far!
The vibrations from a collapsed UJ broke my engine backplate and snapped the top of the bellhousing off the gearbox

[Stig]

As the other folks have said, if you can feel any play at all then the UJ's need replacing. Having replaced one very recently I can assure you it is DIY-able if you're inclined, otherwise a Minor specialist should be able to do it for you. There used to be a place that did propshaft repairs and balancing in Feltham (W London) but I've no idea if they're still going or if that's even remotely near you, in fact Google shows several specialists.
But it's best to get it sorted straight away, if you have to drive it in the meantime then keep the speed below 45 to avoid damage.

[Willie]

Advice to anyone whos prop shaft starts off the dreaded vibration
is to at all costs drive below the speed at which the vibration becomes
severe if you need to get the car home. In common with RAY I
was stuck a hundred miles from home with this problem and never
made it! The vibration destroyed the tail end of the gearbox on a
Triumph 2000.

[sixdogs]

Thanks for your comments guys.

Cam, When you say the u/j's are held on with circlips, do you mean that the spiders and needle bearings are held in the two yokes with circlips ? I had figured on replacing the whole assembled joints, complete with yokes, but on mine there is a yoke welded to each end of the propshaft.

I can get a complete refurbished prop shaft from Minor Developements in Kidderminster (5 miles from where I live) for £75. They also sell a joint for £8-50. I'm not sure what the joint actually consists of, and whether it includes the yokes or not. The complete propshaft would save a lot of hasle and I don't think the price is unreasonable.

It seems my worst fears are justified. There does seem to be some movement in the splined shaft, at the gearbox, and I have an oil leak. This, despite the car having done only about 1000 miles since the box was overhauled, along with most of the running gear being replaced by the previous owner. I have all bills to varify this. Of course the splines on the shaft may be worn.

Fortunately, I will not be taking the car out much now the wet weather is upon us, which gives me time to sort out the problems.
[/quote]

[Alec]

Hello Sixdogs,

the repair kit consists of the spider, its cups and needle bearings, circlips and if you get the right one, a grease nipple.
There is a school of thought, (which I ignore) that says the shaft needs balancing if the joints are repaired. What I do is mark the two yokes so that I replace them as they came apart, i.e. keep the respective alignment. Ideally, I suppose the spider also should be aligned as it comes apart. (as it is not totally symetrical) What you won't know is if someone has disturbed it earlier since it was originally balanced.
If you find that the bearing cups are a loose fit once everything is cleaned up then that yoke is U\S and a replacement shaft is required.
You could, however, take a chance and use bearing fit.
There is a certain knack in dismantling and re-assembling these and the use of a vice is recommended.

Alec

[ColinP]

Clive
(at the risk of double posting with Cam )

The U/Js are held in the eyes of the yoke by the circlips. It may be necessary to remove years of grot to see the circlips clearly!

Removing the circlips lets the "cups" of the U/J free, so by moving the U/J sideways in the yoke it will come free. (usually dropping the needle rollers, caps and u/j in a heap on the ground....
("Moving" may well require a 4lb club hammer and a drift )

Just be careful you don't drop the prop shaft on your legs.

All the best,

Colin

[bigginger]

As both chaps above imply, it can be a bit of a pig, but eminently DIYable, and important to get it sorted ASAP to protect the gearbox - 'snever happened to me, but I believe Ray's story Do get ones with grease points though.

[Cam]

sixdogs,

I see what you are getting at now! You were thinking of replacing the yoke and not just the spider and it's bearings & cups.

Well, as Alec says, you can try a replacement 'kit' for the spider which SHOULD cure the problem unless there has been SEVERE wear (never seen one myself) and the yokes are knackered. If this does not cure the problem then you could take the whole thing (including the new kit) to a prop specialist who will replace the offending yoke, fit the spider and balance it. They are usually quite reasonable too. I had a custom prop made and balanced for me (Sierra one end, Ford Escort the other with a Minor middle bit and a custom length and it cost £60. Very reasonable I thought.

[sixdogs]

Thanks again for all your help. It has suddenly become very clear what is involved. My best bet is to get the shaft off and into the workshop. I have a large vice and a good solid work bench, which has served half a lifetimes making do and mending.

I was beginning to think that the Leyland workshop manual was best used under the jack, as I can find no grease points either on the joints. It is probably due to the joints having being replaced before, with inferior parts. One just does not know what work has been done on a car this age.

Can anyone say if the bush on the end of the gearbox which the splines slide into, can be replaced without dismantling the box ?

regards, Clive.

[bmcecosse]

Or just pick up a second hand shaft on ebay for very little money. Handy to have a spare anyway.

[rayofleamington]

Can anyone say if the bush on the end of the gearbox which the splines slide into, can be replaced without dismantling the box ?

yes and no!
In theory you can leave the box in place and remove just remove the rear casting, however it is far easier to do on the bench.
The new bush will need to be reamed to size after fitting anyway (when you find a decent workshop that has an adjustable reamer!!)

[sixdogs]

Or just pick up a second hand shaft on ebay for very little money. Handy to have a spare anyway.

This seemed like a good idea, but I've just searched e-bay with no success. Do you have any tips for searching ?

regards, Clive.

[rayofleamington]

For second hand, also try 'Matt' - he's still got some bits of the traveller left

[bmcecosse]

No real tips I'm afraid - I run constant searches for 'Minor' within a radius of my home to check for anything local - I suppose a search for 'prop-shaft' might bring a flood ! I have seen them in the past (Minor prop shafts that is) but of course when you want one - there are none ! Try a wanted post on here. I am collecting some Minor bits I won on ebay on Sunday - i will ask if they have a shaft if you like. I have a spare in my garage - but it's not for sale - sorry.

[Cam]

sixdogs,

Where are you located? I have a few spares but I need one myself at the weekend so I'll have a dig about but I might be too far from you to make it practical?

Also, I don't know the balance condition of them either.

I'm going to have to try some for pot luck.

[sixdogs]

For second hand, also try 'Matt' - he's still got some bits of the traveller left

Thanks Ray, you're a real gem !!

Clive

[Matt]

I do have the propshaft... and i am willing to sell it, where are you?

[sixdogs]

I do have the propshaft... and i am willing to sell it, where are you?

I'm in Worcestershire, halfway between Worcester & Kidderminster on the A449. What are the options for getting a heavy object halfway accross the country ?

Regards, Clive.