[b]Alloy weel crisis!!![/b]please please help!

Post by **Peetee** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:21 am

A series lump and attempted to inject it, with dire results

ooh that sounds a juicy story, what happened?

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:39 am

No not really, it meant that the emphasis was on emmissions rather than a well performing engine. My mini mates have always said that these are the ones to avoid.
Nikki the problem with the choice of alloys is not necessarily the PCD but the offset. As most cars are now front wheel drive the offset tends to be between 25 and 40, for the minor you need 24 on a standard hub, and 18- 20 if using a disc conversion. If using Ford PCD discs then ask for Peugeot centers and an offset of 15-20.
One of the disc kits manufacturers can offer a multitude of PCD's and centers but must be based upon the Escort MK4 vented discs.

Post by **Matt** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:32 am

We have hijacked this thread a bit havent we! So if I see a late old style mini in the scrappers is it worth having the head (for a midget engine)? as a unleaded conversion, or is it just too much hassle?

Post by **Wal** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:36 pm

Just to have my say and echo what most have already said about the original thread.

Definitely the centre bore needs to be correct as it aligns the wheel properly, the wheel nuts just hold it on.

You need to ensure the wheel nuts have the right taper or they can undo themselves.

As stated studs need to be drawn through not hammered.

Also I disagree that spacers are a bad idea, they're only bad if fitted incorrectly. I've run my Moggy on spacers for years and no problem.

Wal

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:09 pm

Also I disagree that spacers are a bad idea, they're only bad if fitted incorrectly. I've run my Moggy on spacers for years and no problem.

Me too - the standard set up for the late 80's Porsche 911 turbo used spacers. I never had problems with my Porsche wheel spacers (except that they were darn expensive!!

)

Post by **bmcecosse** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:25 pm

The folks with injected A series engine will swear by them - until MOT time that is when it almost impossible to get them through without resorting to tricks like stuffing socks up the exhaust pipe !!
All the Minis in the last few years had 13" wheels - and of course there is a vast aftermarket for them. It makes the Mini handling really terrible !! Stiill to hear what make of wheels these are - are they Minilites ? And I said spacers are bad - with the addendum that the wheels should have been bought with the correct offset in the first place. I disagree that the centre part of the hub aligns the wheel - the studs with the correct nuts align the wheels - and they are retained by the clamping force of the nuts on the studs - and yes they need to be drawn through the hubs to secure them. None of my Mini wheels locate on the hub centres - all on the studs - and the same for the Minor. And if you fit spacers where is the alignment then ?? It can only be on the studs. What could go wrong is if the centre hole in the new wheel is not large enough to go over the centre part of the hub - and the wheel is then balancing on the edges of the raised centre - now that would be scarey !

Post by **smethdog** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:35 pm

Dont know the exact dimentions of the weels, i know that they are vauxhal fitment, and are the same as the once fited to the pimp my minor. At the time i had no idea of the fun it was going to be!!

Eventually i hope to change everything! engine gear box e.c.t and of course change the suspension and brakes to kope, i have hered of ford siera rear axels being fited?? any truthe in that? If needs be then i may as well go ahead with suspension and brakes now as it is clear that these weels are not going to stay atached long on standard running gear!

Were do i go next, there is a hole world of diferent things that have been done, i would idealy like to get the thing to stop and handle well and most importantly take these weels! with something like a k series engine.

If this is the case wat is the best path to take?

Post by **bigginger** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:13 pm

Ford Sierra didn't have a rear axle, AFAIK. Independent rear suspension. The Escort rear axle? (rear wheel drive ones, obviously)

Post by **smethdog** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:21 pm

Weels are wolf race 16" vauxhal fitment

Post by **Cam** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:06 pm

There's your problem then! Vauxhall's are 100mm PCD and not 4" (101.6mm) Your wheels will be bending the studs if done up tight. Take them off and put your standard ones back on. Those wheels are not the correct fitment for a Minor.

Work out what you want to transform the car into, then have a think about the cost and practicality of it, then start buying components and doing the work. Ask lots of questions on here too as the chances are that someone has done it before and can offer advice.

Post by **Wal** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:14 pm

Sorry I completely disagree that the wheel nuts and studs align the wheels. If you run the wheels without them centering on the hubs ?stub? then you are placing all the strain especially during cornering on the wheel studs and this is not a good idea. Just because you have spacers doesn't mean you can't center on the hubs - my wheels do even with spacers. If the centre hole isn't big enough then you have the wrong wheels.

Regards,
Wal

Post by **smethdog** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:42 pm

If those weels are the wrong PCD on standard hubs then how did thay manage to get them on the pimp my minor?? they are exacly the same!

Post by **jonathon** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:20 pm

Fully agree with Wal, the hub center is cricial in centering the wheel. It is possible to fit a wheel using only the stud location and be off center, this will not only cause problems with studs but also wheel bearings.
The 100mm pcd wheels will go on easily with tapered nuts, if you were using sleeved nuts you would not be able to fit them. As Wal correctly states the studs will be being forced inwards to fit the minor PCD.
The lesson to be learned here I feel is not to rely on information from a poor quality source. Pimp my ride are only interested in the visual bling effect which they do quite well, they suffer like many in not doing the correct research. There are plenty of knowledgable folk on this forum, and I would suggest that any further mods are based on solid informed opinion.
Wheel spacers should also be fitted with the correct centers, not to do so is asking for trouble as the stud length is ofted way beyond the manufacturers safety thresholds and as such are even more prone to high stress loads.

Post by **Cam** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:26 pm

smethdog wrote:If those weels are the wrong PCD on standard hubs then how did thay manage to get them on the pimp my minor?? they are exacly the same!

As Jonathon suggests there is a world of difference in 'getting them to fit' and them being correct, safe and reliable. Perhaps the 'pimp my ride' lot changed the PCD of the Minor hub to match? Do we know what they did?

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:47 pm

I also seem to remember that pimp my ride actually custom-made some wheels for the car in question

Post by **smethdog** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:58 pm

It now seems clear that i am going knowere with these weels without realy customising everything!

Am restoring a 2cv, (i know, im not proud!!) that i can drive while the work is done on the minor, any ideas of who to speak to or were i could take it to get these sorts of things done?

Post by **Multiphonikks** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:12 pm

There's quite a few people on here who are into modifying/customising minors, from those of us who like things to look bog standard but have that little 'extra' to the full-blown pimp-my-ride style mods.

For what it's worth, there is a custom minor register (isn't there?)

Jonathon at JLH would be a good place to start - but I'll warn you, customising a minor can cost you a lot

(This comes from someone who is considering various upgrades to her car)

Post by **les** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 10:11 pm

I cant think of a locating centre boss on a Minor that 'centres' the wheel, to do the job it would have to be a machined item. The protruding hub on the front is not machined or the same diameter to locate the wheel.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:07 pm

the studs with the correct nuts align the wheels

And if you fit spacers where is the alignment then ??

Sorry mate but you're way off the mark. Proper spacers will locate to the centre bore of the hub and locate the centre bore of the wheel.
Cheap spacers are not worth having - Oversize wheels that don't accurately locate on the centre bore are also not worth having unless you like to gamble with safety.
A stud is just a bendy bit of metal when you apply cross axial load - the studs can bend and then break if the wheel hits something hard enough, unless the load is transferred correctly via the wheel centre.

Post by **bmcecosse** » Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:38 pm

As I said right at the start - 100mm is NOT correct for a Minor - you will kill yourself - in fact you have almost done so already - twice! If you watch the daft 'pimp' program I wouldn't trust them to change my spark plugs ! And do you notice it's not the same Minor at the end as is shown at the start. They are very 'coy' about the number plate in the early shots. Obviously the original car was just too far gone and they used another. But to get back to the wheels - fraid they are no use for a Minor.