Cyl Head Removal

Post by **MalaysianMoggy** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 7:29 am

Greetings All from Penang, Malaysia, I would appreciate some advice on removal of the cylinder head from my 1966 Moggy Thou. The vehicle has been stood, covered, on-blocks for 2 years. last time it ran it leaked oil from the head gasket rear rh side.

I now have the time to replace the gasket, got all the bits shipped from DSN, removed all accessories, head nuts, manifolds..but the bugger will not come off, it almost like it has been welded on it is so tight (which i would not put past any dodgy workshop here in Malaysia!)

Any tips or techniques to getting the damned thing off, would be much appreciated!

Thanks a million - Roger

Post by **Stig** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:24 am

Try to avoid shoving big screwdrivers between the block and the head, tempting though it is! You could try refitting the spark plugs (just to get compression, don't connect the leads) and turning it over on the starter, that worked for me.

Post by **MalaysianMoggy** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:21 am

Thanks, I'll give that a try

Post by **ColinP** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:13 pm

Hi,

Do make sure that you have removed everything that holds the cylinder head down! -

I've had to use a large mallet and block of wood just to break the gasket sealing (possibly worse if it has had sealant used on it!)

Try adding a little oil into the cylinders before replacing the spark plugs - this will help to seal worn piston rings.

All the best,

Colin

Post by **Packedup** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:39 pm

I've managed the "rope trick" a couple of times. Take the plugs out, drop the rockers off, and stuff some string down the plug holes. Turn the engine carefully but firmly with a socket/ bar, and it will most likely lift the head

However, the head might be stuck on a stud or two, I've had that happen (one was a carboned up stud that was stuck solid to the head). Best thing then is to get some penetrating oil round the studs, and try to remove them after letting them soak.

Post by **simmitc** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 12:54 pm

Just double-checking the "everything" - 9 x stud nuts (including engine steady bar fixing), 4 x rocker pedastal nuts, rocker assembly, bypass hose, top hose, heater pipe(if fitted), manifold (either at the head or at the exhaust pipe). OK, what have I forgotten to mention. I'd go with the penetrating oil round the studs and then crank carefully with plugs in. Good luck.

Post by **newagetraveller** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:24 pm

Disconnect the exhaust pipe from the manifold but leave the manifold connected to the cylinder head.

You can sometimes get more leverage if you wiggle the manifold about.

Post by **MalaysianMoggy** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:27 am

Thanks Guys, i have just been back and double checked, everything is disconnected. I put some easing oil down the studs and left it to stand. I have the battery on charge, so will add a bit of oil to each cylinder , put the plugs in and give it a crank and see what happens. today i will fashion a couple of wooden wedges to give it a whack if that fails!..I am not sure about being tempted with screwdriver..more like an angle grinder! I will keep you informed.

Post by **MalaysianMoggy** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:20 pm

Well, I am sorry to say all failed! PackedUp can you please elaborate on the old 'rope trick' or does anyone have any other suggestions!

Post by **simmitc** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 12:36 pm

I wonder whether some gentle heating with a blow lamp might help? Obvious safety issues of keeping clear of flammable or meltable items; but perhaps the heat will either expand a bit of siezed metal or release any oil / goo that is sticking things together. Also perhaps some tapping with a mallet. Final idea - see if you can remove the studs and then slide the head sideways. Either a stud extractor or lock two nuts together. The only danger is that is the studs are really stuck then they might snap.

Post by **lowedb** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:05 pm

Once had an escort with a similar problem, and no studs either (it was bolted).

We got it off by putting the plugs back in, but power off, pushing along the road in second and dropping the clutch. It took a good half dozen attempts before it freed with such a bang we thought it was coming through the bonnet.

If that hadn't worked, we had considered the same but towing, and then even refirtting carb and igniton and starting it!

Post by **rayofleamington** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:08 pm

This should remind people not to use gasket glue on the head gasket!

Post by **Packedup** » Tue Oct 04, 2005 8:10 pm

MalaysianMoggy wrote:Well, I am sorry to say all failed! PackedUp can you please elaborate on the old 'rope trick' or does anyone have any other suggestions!

Remove the rocker assembly so the valves are closed. Feed a load of string down either #1 or #4 plughole when it is at bottom dead center. Carefully wind the engine round on the starting handle or spanner on the pulley nut, so that the string is forming a solid (barely) compressable mass in the cylinder, so the piston is pushing the head off. Be very careful, as this isn't good for conrods or bearings/ journals, espeically if you really give it some welly. However, I have had to do it a couple of times, and got away with it so far.

It might be an idea to fill 1 and 4 at the same time so the head isn't being lifted off unevenly, but you lose the "lever" effect of doing it on one end, so it might take more grunt.

Have you got all the studs out? My bet is if you haven't, it's one or two of those causing the sticking.

Post by **MalaysianMoggy** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:11 am

Hi Guys, thanks again. Rocker was off already, but I think just not enough compression with oil only. I understand the rope trick now, thanks PackedUp. I have the studs soaking and will get them out first, then give the rope thing a go. My guess is gallons of goo have been used to seal it last time. I am having the same problem getting the thermostat housing off.

My secondary problem is I live in a block of flats and the car is on blocks in a multi-storey car park, so i can not really tow it..suppose I could push it down the 'out' ramps and hope! knowing my luck I'd get my neighbour in his new Beemer coming the other way!! dont think he'd be too impressed if I whipped out a blow torch either! .. will keep you informed on progress.

Post by **rayofleamington** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 9:18 am

I am having the same problem getting the thermostat housing off.

Stuck thermostat housing is a very common problem - that one is usually caused by corrosion in the stud holes making them lock up tight. Occasionally they need to be butchered off, which isn't too bad over here as you can get replacement housings pretty easily.
Ideally you should grease the studs and holes which will slow down the same thing happening in future.

Post by **Pyoor_Kate** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 10:57 am

If it's the same sort of calcified corrosion products that we had on Nikki's Hebe, then toilet cleaner with limescale remover works wonders. Just keep slopping it on repeatedly, eventually the cover will become free, we also had to batter it with a rubber mallet....

Post by **bmcecosse** » Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:40 pm

You MUST get all the studs out - then the head will come off. I would use hydraulics rather than string - ie puts loads of oil in and then refit old plugs - but turn it by hand with the starting handle - the starter motor maybe just a bit too fierce. You can also jack up a rear wheel and turn the engine with that. Thermo housing also needs studs out - BUT they break easily. So blow lamp heat on the alloy cover is the best way, or just smash the alloy cover - better that than a broken stud in the head, or worse still - a chunk broken off the head. When re-fitting I run a drill down the thermo holes to increase the clearance slightly - and as said - a good dollop of grease (copper slip if you have it).

Post by **wanderinstar** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:13 pm

Regarding t/stat studs. On my engine the studs have been replaced by bolts. Afraid it still leaves the problem of getting old ones out.
Ian.

Post by **MalaysianMoggy** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 2:31 am

Thanks again for all the tips, i think the hydraulic pressure is probably the least severe, then if that fails again I will try the string.

I am not in a position to break up the thermostat housing as i will never be able to get a spare here, so will try the limescale remover first. But you are right...bolts much better replacement.

Still trying to get the head studs out, the usual 2 nuts together did not work, so I will have to try an locate a stud remover. Locally no supply..so here are my next questions:

1. Anyone know of a good on-line tools supplier, ie a tool version of amazon?

2. by any chance, these studs are not LH thread?

Post by **bmcecosse** » Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:54 pm

No not LH thread. Try lots of heat from a blow lamp - shine the heat on the alloy cover. Should be easy enough to get a new cover - it's the same as any Mini. There MUST be Minis in Malaysia - certainly many in Singapore. Bolts are all very well - and note it's a UNC thread in the head - but if they rust in then they are even more of a problem to remove than the studs. The threads on the studs will easily strip if you try too hard with the two nut system. And it is very easy to shear a chunck off the head when struggling with the outer two studs - so beware - you have been warned. Lots of heat and release oil is the way to go.