Rear Chassis Section, + Other Rot

[Packedup]

Moved the 2 door I've got my eye on today, and once under cover I decided to take a look over it (it's currently being used as a guide for re-assembling the pickup).

Overall it's not too bad in my opinion, after a quick going over. Front chassis area "looks" solid both sides, as do the rear spring hangers. However, on the right the rear chassis where the spring bolts on is very very poor, so much so it appears the spring bracket isn't attached to anything!

The boot floor also has a side plate sized hole at the back on the right, and there's a hole in the floor under the drivers seat support at the rear.

One wing is also trashed, obviously had an impact at some point. The other wing is pretty good other than some grot around the headlight, and also gone through vertically next to the door all the way down. It's also a bit scuffed from where it was driven into/ through the gatepost getting it out.. The left inner wing around the arch is gone, but there's one off another car that I'm hoping will fit OK.

The sill covers are shot, which suggests the sills aren't going to be up to much, and the rear panels are both rotten where they meet the floor.

There's signs of welding on the door posts and floors in the past, although this looks quite well done and solid

If I can wangle this car (for free!) and sort out a logbook (as far as I know the owner never sent off for the new V5C) does it sound like a reasonable lightish resto project? And how easy is it to replace the rear chassis section? I estimated about 200 quid all in for parts/ panels, which is doable over time if I reduce my fleet, flog some parts and save up over time, but is this a realistic figure? I'm not looking to make it perfect, I don't have the money or skills, I just want a sound reliable car for as little as possible!

[Cam]

Take the sill covers off and take the carpets up then have a GOOD prod around with a screwdriver. This should then show you the extent of the problem. The rear chassis extensions can be replaced (£20 + VAT from ESM), but you need to ask yourself if you have the skills or money to be able to do this properly.

Sounds like there is a fair bit of welding to do, so you need to ask yourself if you are prepared to do it all.

I (of course) would say go for it, but once you start the stripping and grinding away rot you'll soon see how much work is involved!

[Packedup]

Take the sill covers off and take the carpets up then have a GOOD prod around with a screwdriver. This should then show you the extent of the problem. The rear chassis extensions can be replaced (£20 + VAT from ESM), but you need to ask yourself if you have the skills or money to be able to do this properly.

Got the left carpets out and the floor is covered in rust, but appears solid enough. The other side doesn't seem *too* bad other than the hole I found. Money is very very (very) tight, but I'm in no rush to do this so can save and do it over time, and hopefully flog some of my bits of cars that are meeting their (unfortunate but nobody wants to buy them) end.

As for skills, I can certainly weld well enough for the MOT, comes with owning a succession of old British cars I suppose It's not tidy though, but is solid, which is the most important thing to me.

Sounds like there is a fair bit of welding to do, so you need to ask yourself if you are prepared to do it all.

I really hate welding, but I've already decided if I do get the car, and do go ahead with it, I'll be sorting out a spit or suchlike so I don't have to do it from underneath. And if I don't (or can't, although I was promised it many months ago) take this car on, then it's going to slowly rot away till it can be brushed up and put in binliners.

I (of course) would say go for it, but once you start the stripping and grinding away rot you'll soon see how much work is involved!

Oh, I know! But I said this afternoon, if the 4 corners are solid then I'll go ahead, and only one of them is rotten so I'd still like to consider it It's just if there's any sense I need talking into me, I'd rather it happened now than when I've hit the point of no return!

Can't see repair sections for 20 odd quid on ESM, only http://shop.morrisminorspares.co.uk/pro ... c22475df3c

Is this the right one, or are there shorter sections? Not sure how much I need anyway, or actually how they're attached to the car (many spot welds on the floor?).

[Willie]

If you are saying that the bottom flat face to the rear of the B
pillar is rusted through from inside then it is a nasty job which
entails slicing off the lower section of the panel under the rear side
window and carefully repairing the undoubted mess which you will
find inside. Repair sections are available but I for one didn't enjoy
that particular bit!!

[Packedup]

Looking at this diagram http://www.morrisminor.org.uk/catalogue/bpp05.htm it's number 13 that has gone both sides. Why do I get the feeling that's the bit you're also on about?

It's the one bit of welding I can find that has to be done tidily so it all looks OK when finished, and the one bit I wasn't looking forward to if I get the car (OK, I never look forward to welding, but this is the bit I really really don't want to think about).

[Chris Morley]

does it sound like a reasonable lightish resto project?

Errr... to be honest... no it doesn't! I would guess that this one will take quite a lot of serious welding to pass an MOT, even if we assume that it's fine mechanically. Holes under the drivers seat usually means that the nearby crossmember end is also suspect. As the bottom panels (no 13) are also both shot I guess you're going to find a rusty mess under the sill covers.....

[SR]

pics of this on my weblink, not much fun ,as said inner rot affects so many other panels

[rayofleamington]

I estimated about 200 quid all in for parts/ panels, which is doable over time if I reduce my fleet, flog some parts and save up over time, but is this a realistic figure?

£200 (including gas and grinding disks) sounds realistic unless you have to get inner wing sections etc...
Then you have to consider all the other non-welding related jobs!! These can be far more expensive
If the car has been standing a long time, or wasn't well maintained (or both like our 54!) then you'll have a heap of additional things to replace like suspension, brakes etc..

To save cost you can search out second hand stuff including the repair panels.
Whenever I see some, I tend to get hold of any 'second hand' new sill sections, and other repair panels (e.g. from unfinished projects or e-bay if they are well underneath a traders price) but that's because I can afford to stockpile a bit. I was well chuffed to get a rear chassis extension for £1 at an autojumble last year, although when I needed one on Wilberforce this year, it was of course the opposite side

I got some second hand 'new' chassis leg repair sections from the owners club mag for half price so they paid for themselves when I needed one on the 54. When I got them I was rather surprised (unimpressed) to find they had previously been tack brazed to someone's car!! presumably they gave up on the resto and cut them off again - I dread to think they used the car with chassis legs held on by a few blobs of brazing!!

The 54 looked like a medium sized amount of work when I saw it last year and my advice to Pyoor Kate was not to have it. This looked rather better than your description of your potential car...
When we needed a car this year and the 54 was still available I forgot the iceberg principle - hence landing myself with a major project instead of a medium one

[SR]

re grinding discs,i spent around £75 on 1mm plasma discs for my resto,then on a visit to my mates i saw the setup i should have got,which i have now and will speed up panel cutting 10 fold, £60 compressor and £18 pound air hammer with 3 pronged panel cutting chisel ,totally awesome,get one or wast time and eat more sparks than u can shake a stick at,pic avilable if interested,raspberry if your not ,steve

[rayofleamington]

,i spent around £75 on 1mm plasma discs for my resto

wow! either that's a lot of disks or they were expensive!

I bought 25 cutting disks disks from screwfix last year for about £10 and still have 12 left so I figured the 5" by 2.6mm were a pretty good deal (have done a lot of cutting as my repair steel is a little bit too thick for my tinsnips to go far).

I'd certainly prefer to have a nibbler!!

[SR]

ello ray ,i was getting 25 for £15 from mach mart,theyre thin so cut quicker ,but dont last as long ,or shatter easy,u saw the pic on my weblink of what i amputated didnt u?

[rayofleamington]

u saw the pic on my weblink of what i amputated didnt u?

yes - have been looking at all yr pics, although I hae made a similar size pile myself since last year.
Did you grind all the spotwelded joints? I have been popping them with molegrips.

[SR]

cut legs of with panel cutter, which left flange,drilled partway with normal bit ,then got hold of it with pliers and twisted like a cornbeef can,some grinded as well mate

[SR]

if i was gonna save floor panels i should have ground em,pliers way rips other panel,or it did on mine

[rayofleamington]

pliers way rips other panel,or it did on mine

yeah - it tends to do that. When I removed the chassis leg I used the holes left behind in the engine bay floor, drilled them out bigger and plug welded it through into the new leg.
A bit of waggling tends to make a clean hole but a lot of them will just rip, so needed to disconnect the torn part with the grinder to prevent it tearing any further.

[Packedup]

£200 (including gas and grinding disks) sounds realistic unless you have to get inner wing sections etc...

I've got an inner wing section (cut off another car) that should be OK, and as I'm interested in useable and solid rather than original/ perfect the flat sections can be cut out and replaced with sheet, so far as I'm concerned But there's always the bits that I just don't have the finer skills for, where I'll be needing to buy the correct repair panels. Cam's post pointed me in the right direction for checking the extent of the underside rot.

£200 on bodywork (panels and consumables) is about my limit, so if it's possible for that I'd be quite happy It's not like I *need* the car, so can take my time if I get it, but I'm trying not to spend more than I could buy a solid car for in the first place!

Then you have to consider all the other non-welding related jobs!! These can be far more expensive
If the car has been standing a long time, or wasn't well maintained (or both like our 54!) then you'll have a heap of additional things to replace like suspension, brakes etc..

It's been off road about 3 years, so not too bad. The brakes actually are pretty reasonable all things considered, I'd probably be OK with new seals al round. The interior is a mess, but that's not something that worries me a great deal. I don't know about the suspension, everything seems free and the dampers seem to work, but the dreaded trunions are an unknown quantity, I've literally just shifted the car 50 yards or so and removed the bonnet to let a bit more light in. It's going to remain like that while it's used as a guide for the pickup, then I'll really go over it. The clutch seems OK though, and the engine put up with quite a bit of abuse today without complaint. Mechanicals don't worry me too much anyway, bodywork bothers me a lot though

To save cost you can search out second hand stuff including the repair panels.
Whenever I see some, I tend to get hold of any 'second hand' new sill sections, and other repair panels (e.g. from unfinished projects or e-bay if they are well underneath a traders price) but that's because I can afford to stockpile a bit. I was well chuffed to get a rear chassis extension for £1 at an autojumble last year, although when I needed one on Wilberforce this year, it was of course the opposite side

So these sorts of things turn up fairly often then? If I do decide to go for it (which isn't entirely my decision, and the comments here are giving me serious second thoughts too)) then I'd have plenty of time to bargain hunt, and assemble a pile of parts before worrying about making a start (plus I want to get on with a car I already have, before it sees too many winters sat in bits outside). There's also the issue of getting the go ahead for welding where it is, that might throw the whole idea out the window anyway.

The 54 looked like a medium sized amount of work when I saw it last year and my advice to Pyoor Kate was not to have it. This looked rather better than your description of your potential car...
When we needed a car this year and the 54 was still available I forgot the iceberg principle - hence landing myself with a major project instead of a medium one

This one looks OK at first glance, but 3 years of being sat outside on soft ground has taken its toll, and I don't think it was in great condition when it went there. I'll try and remember to get some batteries in my (not very good) camera and get some pics of the bad areas, that might be better than me waffling on trying to describe it

[Cam]

Can't see repair sections for 20 odd quid on ESM, only http://shop.morrisminorspares.co.uk/pro ... c22475df3c

Is this the right one, or are there shorter sections? Not sure how much I need anyway, or actually how they're attached to the car (many spot welds on the floor?).

Here they are:

http://shop.morrisminorspares.co.uk/pro ... 1221f24d8b

The advice and info that Ray and SR is very good. They are experienced chaps when it comes to these type of repairs. I can certainly confirm that what they say makes a lot of sense! The car will be a lot worse than it looks (they always are). My '63 for example was described as 'solid underneath' but it's needing sills/floor/crossmember end/jacking point/rear chassis extension on one side and a sill patch on the other... plus it needed a new radiator, lots of engine seals (leaked like a seive!), etc, etc... It can soon run away with you...

It sounds like you have convinced yourself that you want the car and want to do the job, but just don't kid yourself into thinking that it's going to be a quick fix. It DOES sound like a big job, but if you have the time and you don't need the car soon then go for it!

I always find though that if you approach the job thinking it's a resto project instead of a quick fix then you don't get so downhearted when you find large areas of rot... Works for me anyway!

[rayofleamington]

My preferred way is to get a car for a few hundred quid that comes with a recent MOT fail sheet. That way I've not had any surprises and have had the cars on the road within a few weeks work rather than months and months (I prefer driving them to welding them!!)

I would much rather have done that for the Plymouth-Dakar but I wanted to stick under the £100 limit, so a half decent Minor wasn't going to happen. With hindsight the 54 was far too big a project, but once I'd started it wasn't easy to give up. There's an awful lot of cars out there that never get finished (like my 57 ) so it also depends on whether you can guarantee your motivation for long enough - that can be the hardest part!

[paulk]

I agree long term motivation is the main problem.

If you can weld and if you do get the car on its side then most repairs are do able but its keeping going that i find hard and I've got the advantage of being in the dry.

Paulk

[Packedup]

Here they are:

http://shop.morrisminorspares.co.uk/pro ... 1221f24d8b

Aha, I was seaching for "chassis" as that's what I'd consider it to be! Obviously will have to get right under and have a good poke around to see just how much metal isn't there. I don't suppose an LCV rear chassis section can be adapted to fit? Only there's a rotten one with reasonably good rear bits sat outside waiting to be scrapped.

The advice and info that Ray and SR is very good. They are experienced chaps when it comes to these type of repairs. I can certainly confirm that what they say makes a lot of sense! The car will be a lot worse than it looks (they always are). My '63 for example was described as 'solid underneath' but it's needing sills/floor/crossmember end/jacking point/rear chassis extension on one side and a sill patch on the other... plus it needed a new radiator, lots of engine seals (leaked like a seive!), etc, etc... It can soon run away with you...

Mechanical stuff doesn't worry me, and this one seems to have a reasonable engine and box (although it'd get new shells and head cleaned up or my unleaded Mini one fitted as a matter of course), but I'm not enthusiastic when it comes to welding. And there's always a bad side, and a worse one I know! I found that when I started on one of my Triumphs, thought one side looked better than the other, turned out it was the "good" side that was utterly shot. The car is currently languishing in a lockup where there's no power to run the welder

It sounds like you have convinced yourself that you want the car and want to do the job, but just don't kid yourself into thinking that it's going to be a quick fix. It DOES sound like a big job, but if you have the time and you don't need the car soon then go for it!

Let's put it this way - I've always wanted a Minor, and working on the pickup has made me like them even more. And this one is most likely going to be chopped up if I don't talk the owner into letting me have it/ restore it. But I really really don't want this amount of welding, although I've certainly taken on similar if not worse. I had a driveway I could weld on at that time though which made life a lot easier. Let's say I'm in 2 minds, and want to really investigate fully before pushing to get the keys and logbook for it

I always find though that if you approach the job thinking it's a resto project instead of a quick fix then you don't get so downhearted when you find large areas of rot... Works for me anyway!

I find liberal amounts of underseal that's been left open for 8 months, not prodding the panels too hard, and a bit of filler works for me ;) Seriously though, something I can buy a panel every few weeks and spend a couple of hours a week on should be fine, so long as it doesn't turn out to be an utter lemon, and there's no issues welding where it is.

I would much rather have done that for the Plymouth-Dakar but I wanted to stick under the £100 limit, so a half decent Minor wasn't going to happen. With hindsight the 54 was far too big a project, but once I'd started it wasn't easy to give up. There's an awful lot of cars out there that never get finished (like my 57 icon_redface.gif) so it also depends on whether you can guarantee your motivation for long enough - that can be the hardest part!

See, I might almost have let you have my write off Triumph for that, a big hammer would sort out most of the damage, with minimal welding required! I'd be looking to not have a deadline to work to (same as 2 of the cars, one of which may have to die unfortunately, I have rusting away awaiting facilites parts and cash), makes it a bit easier to live with not getting anything done.