Now, I'm not entirely certain about this, but it appears the nasty asbestos gasket that I got for my 1275's sump is leaking. Given that I spent several happy hours cleaning off the old gasket and getting it all nicely ready for the new one I'm 'a little bit peeved' by this (and also wondering if it's leaking at the back of the engine into the clutch bellhousing which would be conistent with the re-appearance of a (currently slight) shudder...).
Am I alright to just tighten this up, and is it actually likely to stop the leak? Only normally once a gasket starts leaking I find I'm in the terratory of the change-of-gasket required - and have little enthusiasm for changing the sump gasket, but if it'll stop the leak (which is pretty bad) then, well, I'd give it a shot (before it gets *really* wintery).
Cheers!
Leaky sump gasket
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Pyoor_Kate
- Minor Addict
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Leaky sump gasket
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
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Cam
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You can usually tell where the leak is coming from if you clean up the area, run the car, then have a look.
If it IS the sump then read on:
Contrary to general belief, it IS possible to have a leak-free sump!
First, remove the sump and remove all traces of gasket from both surfaces. I mean ALL!! I usually use an old wood chisel to do this and then follow it up with medium wet & dry sandpaper to ensure that ALL the gasket is gone. Also clean the sump out with petrol so you put back on a nice clean sump. Then make sure that all the sump securing holes have not 'pulled' upwards and are in fact sitting flush. You might need to knock them flat again with a hammer & dolly.
Make sure you get a decent sump seal kit. For the 1275 only use the payen rubber seals for the front and rear NOT the cork ones as they are prone to leaking. Then smear plenty of hylomar blue (from Halfords) on the bottom of the CLEAN engine block and use it to stick the new side gaskets on (line them up carefully too). Also, put plenty of Hylomar on the front and rear seal areas on the block (but not so much as it goes on the crank!
). Then in the sump, coat the new front and rear rubbers with hylomar (very messy) and press them into the ridge. If they are slighly rectangular in shape then have the 'tallest' section upwards as it will seal better, oh and make sure that the seal when sitting in the sump sticks proud of the sump equal amounts so that it does not move much when compressed.
Then coat the bottom of the seal that you have 'glued' to the bottom of the engine with more hylomar blue and then offer the sump up to it, making sure that all the surfaces that mate together have a covering of hylomar blue.
Offer the sump up evenly and put a couple of bolts in at the front and back to 'grip' the sump and then put the rest of the bolts in (that you have cleaned in petrol first). Then tighten up EVENLY a little at a time so the sump goes back on evenly. Wipe of any excess hylomar and hey presto! you're done!
Oh and don't forget to put oil in before you start her up!
If it IS the sump then read on:
Contrary to general belief, it IS possible to have a leak-free sump!
First, remove the sump and remove all traces of gasket from both surfaces. I mean ALL!! I usually use an old wood chisel to do this and then follow it up with medium wet & dry sandpaper to ensure that ALL the gasket is gone. Also clean the sump out with petrol so you put back on a nice clean sump. Then make sure that all the sump securing holes have not 'pulled' upwards and are in fact sitting flush. You might need to knock them flat again with a hammer & dolly.
Make sure you get a decent sump seal kit. For the 1275 only use the payen rubber seals for the front and rear NOT the cork ones as they are prone to leaking. Then smear plenty of hylomar blue (from Halfords) on the bottom of the CLEAN engine block and use it to stick the new side gaskets on (line them up carefully too). Also, put plenty of Hylomar on the front and rear seal areas on the block (but not so much as it goes on the crank!
). Then in the sump, coat the new front and rear rubbers with hylomar (very messy) and press them into the ridge. If they are slighly rectangular in shape then have the 'tallest' section upwards as it will seal better, oh and make sure that the seal when sitting in the sump sticks proud of the sump equal amounts so that it does not move much when compressed.Then coat the bottom of the seal that you have 'glued' to the bottom of the engine with more hylomar blue and then offer the sump up to it, making sure that all the surfaces that mate together have a covering of hylomar blue.
Offer the sump up evenly and put a couple of bolts in at the front and back to 'grip' the sump and then put the rest of the bolts in (that you have cleaned in petrol first). Then tighten up EVENLY a little at a time so the sump goes back on evenly. Wipe of any excess hylomar and hey presto! you're done!
Oh and don't forget to put oil in before you start her up!
Websites: 
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Pyoor_Kate
- Minor Addict
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- Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Washington State, US.
- MMOC Member: No
Well, having had a bit more of a look, it definately is leaking - and quite a bit.
Which leads me to my second question of the day. If, say, a lot of oil is leaking out and being thrown around (it is) - could it find it's way onto the starter motor and cause it to stick? (Given that I've got the first signs of clutch judder appearing; it presumably is making it's way into the clutch bellhousing).
Only, I've done the cleaning connectors.... and, well, it did the whole "no, you don't have a starter" again today, which was a bit annoying. And then I recalled that if the starter motor gets oily, it sticks, and ceases to work as desired. And then wondered if this could tie in with the hugely leaky sump gasket....
Which leads me to my second question of the day. If, say, a lot of oil is leaking out and being thrown around (it is) - could it find it's way onto the starter motor and cause it to stick? (Given that I've got the first signs of clutch judder appearing; it presumably is making it's way into the clutch bellhousing).
Only, I've done the cleaning connectors.... and, well, it did the whole "no, you don't have a starter" again today, which was a bit annoying. And then I recalled that if the starter motor gets oily, it sticks, and ceases to work as desired. And then wondered if this could tie in with the hugely leaky sump gasket....
And, um, can you suggest anywhere that has these. Local autofactors only seem to have cork ones...For the 1275 only use the payen rubber seals for the front and rear NOT the cork ones as they are prone to leaking.
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
But it's an easy job to do a Minor sump gasket - compared to a Mini that is !! Be thankful. Cam's advice is excellent - although I don't go for all that Hylomar - just a wipe is all that's really needed. Are you sure that's the source of the oil - it's not running down from the rocker cover ? Or blowing out the oil filter ?
And yes oil will jam the starter bendix - is that what's happening ? Starter turns but doesn't engage ? Take it off and wash it all with paraffin or petrol. I always keep a good running spare handy - last one cost £1 on ebay - then just change over if problems and fix it later. Same spare does both Mini and Minor. Thank goodness the Minor has a handle to get it started !
And yes oil will jam the starter bendix - is that what's happening ? Starter turns but doesn't engage ? Take it off and wash it all with paraffin or petrol. I always keep a good running spare handy - last one cost £1 on ebay - then just change over if problems and fix it later. Same spare does both Mini and Minor. Thank goodness the Minor has a handle to get it started !
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Pyoor_Kate
- Minor Addict
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- Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 10:22 pm
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I'm presuming that the cruddy little cork seals may also be leaking just as badly; and thus oil may be exiting the engine rearwards. There's definately oil dripping off the little split pin in the gearbox hole, so I'm presuming there's oil insideI don't see (and it may well just be me being dense) how a leak in the sump gasket could lead to oil in the clutch housing. Does anyone else?
Bah, no. That's not what's happening.And yes oil will jam the starter bendix - is that what's happening ? Starter turns but doesn't engage
The starter (works most of the time, but when it doesn't the..) relay clicks and the starter clunks and sounds like it engages, but then doesn't turn the engine over on the first try. On all subsequent trys the relay clicks but the starter makes no noise (and has no effect). However, hitting the starter with something seemed, and this is a one off, to make it work.
The fault is totally intermittent, and a complete pain in the proverbial behind (as well as quite embarassing, especially since the 1275 will not start on the handle when warm; it'll start fine when cold... ).
I've cleaned the 'lecy contacts. I reckon I need a new earth strap, but I'm moderately convinced the one on there is servicable (just starting to go).
Erm, so... suggestions?
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
-
Cam
- Moderator
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- Joined: Mon May 20, 2002 1:00 am
- Location: Stoke-on-Trent, Staffordshire, UK
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Kate, sounds like you have a few problems there.
First of all, I'd cure the starter problem which might well be a worn brush if it's got the power to spin and engage into the flywheel, but no power to turn the engine round. Assuming of course that all the big power leads are OK and the engine has got a good earth. Have you tried connecting a jump lead from the engine to the body (where the battery earth connects) and seeing if it helps?
But I would swap the starter over as bmcecosse says. I have loads spare just in case for that reason. The starters are basically the same between the Mini and Minor but the mounting flanges have different hole spacing and I think there's an extra tooth on the pinion on the Mini starter... So they are interchangeable with fiddling about, but a proper Minor one is the best bet.
Then I would cure the sump oil leak problem. You might have to ring around the Minor suppliers for the seals as motor factors won't usually stock the payen rubber seals. I got my last set from the Birmingham Minor centre but it was a genuine BL 'new old stock' gasket set.
Once you have that sorted then you can see if there is any more leaks from the rear of the engine by either driving it and seeing if it leaks anymore or whipping the engine out and having a look see.
First of all, I'd cure the starter problem which might well be a worn brush if it's got the power to spin and engage into the flywheel, but no power to turn the engine round. Assuming of course that all the big power leads are OK and the engine has got a good earth. Have you tried connecting a jump lead from the engine to the body (where the battery earth connects) and seeing if it helps?
But I would swap the starter over as bmcecosse says. I have loads spare just in case for that reason. The starters are basically the same between the Mini and Minor but the mounting flanges have different hole spacing and I think there's an extra tooth on the pinion on the Mini starter... So they are interchangeable with fiddling about, but a proper Minor one is the best bet.
Then I would cure the sump oil leak problem. You might have to ring around the Minor suppliers for the seals as motor factors won't usually stock the payen rubber seals. I got my last set from the Birmingham Minor centre but it was a genuine BL 'new old stock' gasket set.
Once you have that sorted then you can see if there is any more leaks from the rear of the engine by either driving it and seeing if it leaks anymore or whipping the engine out and having a look see.
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Pyoor_Kate
- Minor Addict
- Posts: 986
- Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Washington State, US.
- MMOC Member: No
This gasket is proving to be a bit of a nightmare to get hold of. Anyone got any suggestions (other than b'ham) where I might get one?
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
-
Pyoor_Kate
- Minor Addict
- Posts: 986
- Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Washington State, US.
- MMOC Member: No
Cheers Cam, it worked out in the end...
B'ham had one left on the shelf (they very kindly went to look at actual physical stock for me
.
Apparently they're not made anymore, or more accurately the kit now contains a cork seal (according to a wide selection of motor factors)
B'ham had one left on the shelf (they very kindly went to look at actual physical stock for me
.Apparently they're not made anymore, or more accurately the kit now contains a cork seal (according to a wide selection of motor factors)
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
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Onne
- Moderator
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- Location: Mapperley Nottingham
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Have you lot got any of the Payen numbers? So I can check it at my work?
Just let me know, I'll be over in less than a months time anyway!
Just let me know, I'll be over in less than a months time anyway!
Onne van der S. MMOCno 60520 Moderator
2dr 1971 White DAF 55 (with hopefully a 1600cc engine soon)
2dr 1973 Bergina (DAF 44)
2dr Estate 1975 DAF 46 in red
2dr saloon 1972 DAF 44 in Mimosa
2dr 1971 White DAF 55 (with hopefully a 1600cc engine soon)
2dr 1973 Bergina (DAF 44)
2dr Estate 1975 DAF 46 in red
2dr saloon 1972 DAF 44 in Mimosa
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Pyoor_Kate
- Minor Addict
- Posts: 986
- Joined: Fri May 28, 2004 10:22 pm
- Location: Washington State, US.
- MMOC Member: No
Well, what I appear to have - which is kinda handy, is a complete gasket set for the Ital/Marina; so all those paper/card ones can go when I get time.
Its part number is EF9461 - and it's labelled
Payen
B.L. Cars Trade Pack
4 Morris Marina
It's also got EF465PYN stuck on it, as a way more modern label.
IF that helps... If anyone spots one they don't need at an autojumble... I'd be happy to accept donations
Its part number is EF9461 - and it's labelled
Payen
B.L. Cars Trade Pack
4 Morris Marina
It's also got EF465PYN stuck on it, as a way more modern label.
IF that helps... If anyone spots one they don't need at an autojumble... I'd be happy to accept donations
Pyoor Kate
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.
The Electric Minor Project
The Current Fleet:
1969 Morris 'thou, 4 Door. 2010 Mitsubishi iMiEV. 1920s BSA Pushbike. 1930s Raleigh pushbike.
The Ex-Fleet:
1974 & 1975 Daf 44s, 1975 Enfield 8000 EV, 1989 Yugo 45, 1981 Golf Mk1, 1971 Vauxhall Viva, 1989 MZ ETZ 125, 1989 Volvo Vario 340, 1990, 1996 & 1997 MZ/Kanuni ETZ 251s
Desires:
Trabant 601, Tatra T603, Series II Landy, Moskvitch-401, Vincent HRD Black Shadow, Huge garage, Job in Washington State.