Series 2 engine oil

[Packedup]

I pay £7.70 a gallon for 20/50 that is at best SJ rated, and I think it might even be lower Best spec off the shelf around here though. If anyone can recommend a good quality 20/50 that isn't hideously expensive then please do - I find myself frequently dropping the sump on my cars, and it's a fresh gallon every time on top of new bearings, thursts and so on. Gets a bit pricey!

Probably better to fix your oil losses really ;)

[rayofleamington]

I pay £7.70 a gallon for 20/50 that is at best SJ rated,

sounds good to me!

[chickenjohn]

These old A series are not hi-tech ! ASDA 20W50 oil is still only £2.74 for 4.5 litres and works very well indeed. Just don't expect it to last for ever. Yes - it will be recycled oil - but it's from a reputable Company - Tetrasyl - and has CC grading. I use it in my fairly well modified 1275 Mini engine and my somewhat modified 1098 Minor engine - no problems at all over many years - and both engines get well hammered !

Funny, I just bought some ASDA 20w50 as the engine in my Traveller is past its best and fresh oil is better than no oil change at all!

[Packedup]

I pay £7.70 a gallon for 20/50 that is at best SJ rated,

sounds good to me!

Yes, it did to me - So I just popped out to the car to double check the emtpy can... It's only SF Silkolene 20/50, bought from Scats Country Stores, if that helps anyone?

The SJ I bought must've been from a high street factors, as I'm sure I've had that spec in recentish times. But it's getting harder and harder to find good 20/50 around here, especially for less than a tenner a time. I've been looking at the agricultural suppliers after seeing an unspecced can of 20/50 Halfords own brand at 13 quid!

Running a Triumph OHV means I change my oil with my big ends, it never gets old enough to need doing of its own accord!

[bmcecosse]

The ASDA oil at £2.74 is the same as the Comma oil ! Would you be happier if ASDA charged you more for it - I'm sure if you asked they could be encouraged to put the price up?? It works fine for me in both my Minor with big valve high compression head - and my 1275 Mini with even bigger valves and even higher compression head !! Excellent oil pressure in both - and no problems at all. Yes - I would not like to put it in my brand new Meriva, or my 1 year old Punto, or 1 year old Seat - but these cars are under warranty - and in any case their engines are designed with closer clearances and fancy overhead camshafts. But for the dear old A series - ASDA does it for me !!

[chickenjohn]

what does the CC rating on the back of the can mean BMC eccosse??

and, I've just realised, with petrol now £4.50 a gallon, burning this oil is far cheaper than using petrol!!!

A series diesel anyone!!!

At £2.74 a gallon, I'm gonna change it every month

[Packedup]

A series diesel anyone!!!

I bought an A series car that had been filled up with diesel once. Ran a little rough and warm.. But ran it did notheless!

[ColinP]

Well,

I've just looked at the Comma Website, and there's quite a difference in the hazard information for the different grades as well as the ratings...

ZINC ALKYL DITHIOPHOSPHATE 1-10% for the "higher quality oils", but < 1% for the "budget versions".

Xt 2000 Semi synthetic 15W/40 is API SL CF (1-10% additive)
Premium Plus only 15W/40 - is API SL CF (1-10% additive)
Sonic 20W/50 - "Value retail" is API - SJ (1-10% additive)
Premium 20W/50 "Economy oil" is API - SE CC (<1% additive)
Motorway "workshop economy" is not rated (<1% additive)

Zinc dialkyl- and diaryldithiophosphates are used in many lubricating oils as anti-wear agents. These compounds are multifunctional because they are also anti-corrosive and anti-oxidative. They have been used since the 1930s and today are the dominant anti-wear agent, occurring in virtually every motor oil on the market.

from: http://apps.kemi.se/flodessok/floden/ke ... yl_eng.htm

So the cheaper oils have less of the anti-wear, anti corrosive and anti-xidative additives. About what I'd expect.


Colin

[chickenjohn]

Yes, but at £2.74 a gallon you can afford to change them so often it won't matter!

[Cam]

YES IT DOES MATTER!

You are STILL exposing the engine to an oil that is not going to protect it sufficiently. Even though you are changing it frequently (which you should do ANYWAY).

If it's an engine that's leaking like a sieve, emitting clouds of blue smoke and is generally on it's last legs then fine. Chuck any old cr*p in it. But if you want to protect your engine then use an oil that protects it more

I have tried these 'cheap' oils in the past and it's really not a good idea especially in a Mini as the gearbox thrashes the oil and shears the long-chain molecules more so than in a Minor. The oil just can't cope and it breaks down leaving the engine a lot less protected.

I used to thrash my Minis for 20 miles or so at 70MPH+ speeds and generally drive like a loony and the cheaper oils would loose pressure after the trip and read well below 8PSI on tickover. Solution? Change to a better quality (but same viscosity) oil and problem solved! The cheap oils simply can't cope. They are not designed to. That's what the ratings are for and that's why the better oils cost more!

It just seems false economy to me for the sake of a few quid.

Oh and don't worry about getting 20W/50 too much. 15W/40 is fine. It's FAR more important to get the right oil QUALITY rating than worry about the viscocity rating to much (as long as it's fairly close, otherwise most of it will leak out!).

Castrol GTX 15W/40 (for example) will be FAR healthier for your engine than ASDA 20W/50 recycled oil.

[Pyoor_Kate]

If it's an engine that's leaking like a sieve, emitting clouds of blue smoke and is generally on it's last legs then fine. Chuck any old cr*p in it. But if you want to protect your engine then use an oil that protects it more

That's just it. Apart from the hideous blue puff of smoke on start up, the engine doesn't produce much smoke when it's running. It really is just leaking like a sieve, and I can't see from where. I also can't *afford* the time to take it out and sort it. So it'll just have to do a year like this.

I plan to get the head reconditioned and unleadified when I qualify, at which point I'll probably pick up a modern car on Freecycle and use that while I sort the engine out in Rebecca properly (and then Freecycle the new car again!).

I will check the compression and see what it's like, but I suspect that the engine's not actually burning it, but leaking it out. Especially since you get a stench of burning oil after a yump or when the engine gets warm on the motorway. Also the huge area of stained driveway at my mum's house, well, that suggests that it's leaking like a sieve. Thus I want to protect the engine as best I can until I can fix it... iyswim.

[Packedup]

Puff of smoke on startup is usually valve guides (I know people seem to think these engines also have stem seals, but I've yet to take one apart that does!), if it's leaking so it's pouring all over the engine then it's worth double checking the rocker cover. An old gasket, or over tightening will cause quite a large leak that is hard to track down.

I don't worry about smoke on startup, it's part of the character

[aupickup]

look on the bright side, if it is ail leaking onto the under side of the car, at least it will not rot, just keep putting oil in
no need for oil change at regular intervals as you all ready do it LOL

[bmcecosse]

The ASDA oil is from Tetrasyl - a reasonable enough Company - and no mention of it being re-cycled oil, although I agree it probably is !! Each to your own folks - I just picked up another bottle from ASDA today - and treated the Traveller to an oil change before it's last run of the season tomorrow - to Perth and back.

[ColinP]

well,
The only web info from Tetrosyl (Same company?) is that they do 3 synthetic & 3 semi-synthetic oils - one 0E-30 which meets BMW & VW specs.
No mention of any other standards at all.


Colin

[MikeNash]

Not wishing to give Mr Cam apoplexy, but our own MMOC Technical Manual describesAPI-SF as "A good useable oil. Suitable for our engines" meaning,I suppose,unmodified motors. And I suppose further that if I don't thrash them like Mr Cam used to, all will be well. (I used Halford's basic red can stuff on my new Peugeot 406 for 117k miles without any trouble at all, but then I'm no urban racer.)
Incidently, wot's wrong with the reclaiming of oil? Have you seen new oil when it first comes out of the ground? I only ask 'cos I want to know. Regards, MikeN.

[chickenjohn]

Cam is right if you keep the oil in the engine for six momths- year or more before changing it, if you do low milages only to shows and days out etc.

How does the API rating relate to the CC rating?? Its all to do with the additives, but how to the two rating systems line up?

By the way, kust topped up the traveller engine with ASDA oil before going to the hop and no problems at all, on the cars longest journey for three years!

[ColinP]

The details of the API certification scheme are found here:

http://api-ep.api.org/quality/index.cfm ... 5003000000
There's an Adobe format document describing the S series of oil (Gasoline engines) and the C series (diesel) grades.
Basically "CC" grade is "Obsolete" and "Not suitable for use in diesel powered engines built after 1990."

There's some information (based on US figures) about oil re-cycling - here (same sponsors):
http://www.recycleoil.org/

Most re-cycled oil is not used for resale as engine oil - it has to be cleaned, re-refined, blended with fresh stock (presumably to keep the mis of chain lengths correct), have the additives added, then tested and certified. The publication makes the point that you should only buy graded oil. (obviously they have an interest in that, but it's still a good point!)

In order to obtain a rating, there's quite a lot of testing to go through!

Colin

[Cam]

Not wishing to give Mr Cam apoplexy

Very kind, Mike.

But our own MMOC Technical Manual describes API-SF as "A good useable oil. Suitable for our engines" meaning,I suppose,unmodified motors.

Yes, SF is a relatively modern standard. Around 1988. CC was the one I had the exception to as it was a Diesel rating for 1961!

And I suppose further that if I don't thrash them like Mr Cam used to, all will be well. (I used Halford's basic red can stuff on my new Peugeot 406 for 117k miles without any trouble at all, but then I'm no urban racer.)

Well, if you 'thrash' your motor then you need a higher quality oil to protect the moving parts more as they are under more stress and the oil is being stressed more too. I used to use the Halfords 'red' for years and it was fine.

Incidently, wot's wrong with the reclaiming of oil? Have you seen new oil when it first comes out of the ground? I only ask 'cos I want to know. Regards, MikeN.

If you just visually compare the two (£2.75 oil & Castrol GTX) the difference is quite astonishing. The cheap stuff smells awful and is 'murky'. the GTX smells like fresh oil and is not murky! Of course there is more to it than that, but it does not inspire me to put it in my engine!

[ColinP]

Mike,

you seen new oil when it first comes out of the ground?

Strangely enough, my wife has a couple of bottles in her office.

Nice mobile pale amber coloured liquids. Mine you, that North Sea oil - possible the last in existence

Depends rather where it comes from - geographically s[eaking.

Colin