Is the Classic Car Parts world going down the pan?

[geoberni]

Whomever is listing items for Moss Rimmer since their merger needs to get some lessons in Classic Parts....

Since when did Stromberg make Fuel Pumps??
Burlen now own SU and Stromberg brands but heavens knows which SU pump this fits.
I don't believe Stromberg UK ever made anything other than Carburettors.
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https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/176939499594

Moss Rimmer.JPG (115.39 KiB) Viewed 573 times

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The Burlen/SU shop website lists the WZX 1710, but doesn't detail which pump(s) it is for.
If you generically just search for pump diaphragms, it doesn't give the WZX 1710 in the results.

It's getting bad enough finding parts, but these suppliers/manufacturers need to improve their performance.

The Moss Europe website lists it, but I'm not convinced by it's appearance and the listing details. The image they have appears to show a post '85 diaphragm:
https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/diaphragm ... mp-wzx1710

Moss Europe.JPG (51.65 KiB) Viewed 565 times

[svenedin]

I wouldn't be surprised if they're using AI to consolidate listings. AI has a tendency to invent or conflate things or so my experiments with it have been. I used an AI scribe to summarise a professional meeting recently and the minutes it produced stated that one of the attendees was building a shed as part of his continuing professional development........It also said that I was teaching on a course (which I was not) in a place I had never been to or heard of........not quite right AI !

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Donald's new SI will fix the issues


Why 11 washers and 6 holes??

[svenedin]

Donald's new SI will fix the issues


Why 11 washers and 6 holes??

They're not washers, they're brass diaphragm spacers and the correct number.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Donald's new SI will fix the issues


Why 11 washers and 6 holes??

They're not washers, they're brass diaphragm spacers and the correct number.

Stephen

Where are they on the parts diagram or is this a different model?

tech_su_44a.jpg (79.92 KiB) Viewed 473 times

[svenedin]

They are instead of part number 7, “centring plates”. Earlier pumps used brass spacers, then they used a nylon plastic contraption then reverted to the brass spacers. The part shown in your diagram is no longer available but can be found when refurbishing pumps of a certain era.

Stephen

[stuffedpike20]

Donald's new SI will fix the issues


Why 11 washers and 6 holes??

Donald's A.I. will fix us all !

[moggiethouable]

I don't know how relevant it is but is the parts blow up from the U.S.A.?
As centreing is spelt centering.
Sorry, pet hate.

[Bill_qaz]

I don't know how relevant it is but is the parts blow up from the U.S.A.?
As centreing is spelt centering.
Sorry, pet hate.

https://sucarb.co.uk/technical/technica ... mps-single
Burlin SU uk website so don't now about spelling?
Perhaps its Donalds SI, like his Americanisms on maps

Thanks Stephen for the information

[geoberni]

Thanks Stephen for the information

There's actually a chronology to the different centring systems, I've never been able to get dates, or even the year of change.
I was on the phone to Burlen a few years ago, asking about the differences as I'd ordered a repair kit illustrated with nylon devices and it came with brass rings. In the course of conversation, I asked why they had gone back to Brass Rings and apparently the Plastic/Nylon devices they tried just didn't do the job well enough.

So the original design had 9 brass rings to centre the the diaphragm assembly as on my photo below; but then at some point,I'm guessing in the 60s/70s, they switched to the single piece nylon assembly as per my photo and the exploded view they still use on the website.
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But sometime later, they switched to the Figure 8 Nylon devices as still illustrated in some of their overhaul kit images...
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Figure 8.JPG (39.92 KiB) Viewed 295 times

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In more recent years, they have moved to using 11 Brass Rings, as shown in some other kit images ....
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Rings 11.JPG (42.89 KiB) Viewed 295 times

I only discovered this difference in ring numbers when I opened up a very old pump I'd brought for £1 at the National Rally, the one in my first photo.
So the rings must obviously be different sizes, but I haven't got a newer pump to compare with at the moment.

Perhaps there is a difference in the size of the recess between pre and post 1985 Coil Housings?
When I find out, I'll make a new post about it.

[svenedin]

I do have a pre-1985 and a post-1985 pump already rebuilt on the shelf. I could determine what the differences are (other than the size of the BA body earth screw) but I am reluctant to meddle with two perfect working spares when I have another pump to repair for a branch member which I have been meaning to get round to for months! I will try to gather data as I repair pumps which I do periodically. I saw the nylon spacer part last in a reconditioned pump that had been reconditioned by British Leyland in the 1980's and that was a pre-1985 pump. I could see nothing wrong with the nylon spacer and I was tempted to re-use it but I had the new brass spacers in the rebuild kit anyway so used those instead.

Stephen

[geoberni]

I do have a pre-1985 and a post-1985 pump already rebuilt on the shelf. I could determine what the differences are (other than the size of the BA body earth screw) but I am reluctant to meddle with two perfect working spares when I have another pump to repair for a branch member which I have been meaning to get round to for months! I will try to gather data as I repair pumps which I do periodically. I saw the nylon spacer part last in a reconditioned pump that had been reconditioned by British Leyland in the 1980's and that was a pre-1985 pump. I could see nothing wrong with the nylon spacer and I was tempted to re-use it but I had the new brass spacers in the rebuild kit anyway so used those instead.

Stephen

I'll get around to doing some pump overhauls at some point.
As an engineer, I can't help but think that the weight of the brass rings must contribute something to the movement of the diaphragm compared to the nylon bits.
Although as the pump is invariably mounted on it's side, whatever the vehicle, it's probably not much

[mike1864]

I'd long been planning to refurb one of my "spare" SUs.
But with all these variants, I think I'll kick that particular project into the long grass.

[geoberni]

I'd long been planning to refurb one of my "spare" SUs.
But with all these variants, I think I'll kick that particular project into the long grass.

So long as you get the right kit for the one you have, you just use the parts provided and essentially upgrade it to the latest spec.

There's a guy on youtube that has quite a good video on how to reassemble a pump, the one thing I disagree with him on is that he doesn't use all the bits he's brought.
For example he uses the one piece nylon device, because it's easier to fit than the set of new brass rings that came in his overhaul kit.

There's more to worry about having an unidentified one from fleabay and not knowing whether it's an HP or LP pump.
It's actually easy to tell once you have it apart, the HP spring is stronger, with thicker wire and fewer turns.
LP is on the left.

PUmp Springs.JPG (7.98 KiB) Viewed 102 times

[svenedin]

I'd long been planning to refurb one of my "spare" SUs.
But with all these variants, I think I'll kick that particular project into the long grass.

There is no need to worry. There are only 2 different rebuild kits for the SU AUA66 LP fuel pump, one is for pumps made after 1985 and the other for pumps made before 1985. The date the pump was made can be ascertained by the diameter of the earth contact screw on the side of the pump.

After 1985 2BA earth screw
Before 1984 4BA earth screw

For BA threads, larger numbers are smaller. So 2BA is bigger than 4BA

Stephen

IMG_1342.jpeg (1.69 MiB) Viewed 77 times

[geoberni]

After 1985 2BA earth screw
Before 1984 4BA earth screw

For BA threads, larger numbers are smaller. So 2BA is bigger than 4BA

Stephen

And if still in any doubt, the 6 screws/bolts that hold it together are also 2BA, so if the earth screw and the case screws are the same head, it's after 1985

Are they refurbs you've done? Very Smart.

[svenedin]

After 1985 2BA earth screw
Before 1984 4BA earth screw

For BA threads, larger numbers are smaller. So 2BA is bigger than 4BA

Stephen

And if still in any doubt, the 6 screws/bolts that hold it together are also 2BA, so if the earth screw and the case screws are the same head, it's after 1985

Are they refurbs you've done? Very Smart.

Thank you. Yes they are. The battery you can see behind is a small 12v rechargeable battery such as is used in burglar alarms. It's very useful for testing car electrical equipment without having a large car battery on the dining table . I always test the pumps after adjusting the points for the correct gaps. The pump caps are the "hump" type as I have found it a fool's errand trying to bend the tails on a Transil to fit inside the flat caps. I prefer the "stepped" caps which are made of a hard thermosetting plastic rather than the hump camps which are a softer plastic, probably polyethylene. The stepped caps give the finished pump a look of quality. Fixing pumps and other similar jobs are winter jobs for me when it is too cold to work in the unheated garage and the nights are long and sometimes very boring.

I have an ultrasonic cleaning machine which I originally used for cleaning pocket watch parts but my eyesight isn't as good as it once was and my hands not so steady so fuel pumps are easier than watches! The watchmaking hobby and the collecting of watches has given me a hatred of marred screw heads so I try to produce a refurb of beauty even if it is just a fuel pump. Old watch screws are often blued so at least these don't need blueing.

https://youtu.be/gjgqomqR7x4?si=xKrqygAE5DS2LOmU

Stephen