No Brakes!!

[jaekl]

Are the shoes adjusted? Adjust them and then stab the pedal a few times to help centralize the shoes and adjust again. Then need to be close for minimal travel for least amount of fluid transfer.

[59Elva]

The linings look to have more than half life left but the cams are adjusted pretty far out. I wonder if the drums have been bored. I don’t have a caliper or inside mic that will measure 7 inches. Suppose I could try two 6 inch machinists scales to get a rough idea.
Agreed that the preferred method would be to have an assistant push the pedal while I opened and closed the bleed nipple watching for bubbles.
The bleed nipples on the Beck Arnley replacement cylinders were a bit of a loose fit. I greased them with Never Seize and later wrapped with teflon tape but think most of the bubbles I saw with the vacuum pump were leaks around the threads.
The flex hoses look good externally. Good color, no cracks, oxidation, or rust on the metal ends. The master cylinder not so nice. Crusty on the outside and the fitting and line might not survive removal efforts. I replaced one on a previous Minor not knowing about the flexing the torsion bar trick. Not something I would like to repeat at my current age.
If the weather dries out today I’ll do some more test driving and maybe take it to the local weekly car gathering this afternoon.
Thanks all,
Bill B

[59Elva]

I was searching for master cylinders on eBay and found one that claims to fit Morris Minors and the Jeep CJ line as well as a number of other makes and models. Can anyone confirm? Details are scarce. One source mentioned a 1” bore. Another 3-1/2” hole spacing and 7-1/2 length. 8.5mm was shown as the output diameter. I suspect all come from India. Dirt cheap, $25-$80. Some with free shipping. As low as 1/10th the price at Moss.
I found a used 7/8” Lockheed in my stash. I haven’t run a hone down it yet. Don’t see any gross pitting, but Im not finding any rebuild kits over here either.

[59Elva]

I found rebuild rubber for the spare master cylinder and assembled it after cleaning it up with a hone. Hopefully everything in the correct order.
I spent an hour or so crawling around bleeding all four corners again with no improvement. Im wondering if the front cup seal was leaking would the rear seal provide some braking at a lower pedal level?
Looks like I’ll have to take out the seats and carpeting so I can remove the tunnel to change the master cylinder. The rear transmission seal appears to be leaking so maybe that would be easier to replace from above.

[59Elva]

Took out the driver’s seat to get the carpet out of the way and better access. The master cylinder bolts are in the wrong way so someone has messed with it before. In addition to the torsion bar the muffler (silencer) is also blocking access. I might be forced to change over to that 1275 Sprite manifold after all. With the tunnel removed I can see that the clutch release bushings are shot. I’ll probably have to bodge something on the lathe because I doubt there’s a US source.
What is the easiest approach to getting the master out?
Pull the bolts and pedal push rod and try to move the cylinder forward to get to the rear brake line flare nut, or loosen the lines first? Inch wrenches don’t seem to fit. Whitworth or metric?

[59Elva]

It’s out! Any tips for putting in the replacement?
I need to clean up the frame leg and get the muffler out of the way to install the bolts correctly. I sure hope this fixes the problem.

I’d like to remove the brake pedal entirely to check the bushing and clean up what looks like sand in the frame rail . How does one withdraw the clutch shaft?
Thanks
Bill B

[59Elva]

Im not sure if it’s a blessing or curse but pulling out the master cylinder revealed the clutch linkage was totally crapped out. Some of the holes will be welded and redrilled. I’ll remake the flat links. Thinking replace the pins with bolts and nyloc nuts? I’ll have to see if I have a die matching the pull rod to make new. The end is worn almost into the cotter pin hole. I have to get a closer look at the throw out arm. It may also be worn. There was a washer between the arm hole and the adjustment nut.
Will the surprises ever end?

[les]

I think you’ll find the die will be 5/16 UNF Bill. I personally would just replace the pins, you would need bolts with the exact length of plain before the thread starts. However just my thoughts on it.

[mowogg]

I would remove the gearbox cross member bolts one at a time to make sure the captive nuts are aound. It's an easy job to make any repairs while the master cylinder is out of the way

[svenedin]

The standard clutch linkage is prone to wear. I appreciate that you are in the USA so parts supply is a problem. I suspect that many UK owners would just replace all of the worn out parts with a kit of new parts. I certainly did. https://www.morrisminorspares.com/clutc ... it-p829581

When the linkage is badly worn it leads to an unpleasant on/off clutch.

One of the forum members here, Declan Burns, has made a rose-jointed clutch linkage that is far superior to the original design.

Stephen

[59Elva]

Thanks all. The clutch was very notchy. I was looking for interference maybe rubbing on the torsion bar but the extreme wear explains a lot.

Stephen,
What a pretty picture. Wouldn’t that make everything easier. If only it was available at the local NAPA store. The price of adopting a foreign orphan. The rod is long enough that I considered chopping off the worn end and rebending it. Unfortunately my son has my oxy torch and its not going to bend cold. I might make a clevis.
BTW I was struggling with the master cylinder banjo bolt. 5/8 and 16mm wrenches were a bit too loose especially given the limited throw inside the frame leg. I was going thru my spanners looking for a 9/16 to sacrifice by grinding it out to fit. I found a 19/32 AF which fits just a little bit tightly. Must be a Whitworth equivalent?

Les,
5/16 unf would make sense. That’s what it looks like to me as well. Unfortunately I can’t remember where my inch taps and dies have gone off to. I found two sets of metric.

Mowog,
The nuts are present. I’ll try backing the bolts out to make sure thy aren’t seized. Good tip.
Bill B

[Mervin]

That's wise advice regarding the cross member "captive" nuts.
I made the mistake of not doing anything with two of them, one each side, and under the master cyl., when I replaced that some years ago. I can't remember why I removed the cross member.
When my clutch was changed two years ago he had to remove the master cyl. to access the cross member nut underneath it. I did tell him it would be necessary. Once again I didn't ask him to weld nuts in the chassis rail.
He refitted the m/c bolts the wrong way round. I have since corrected that.
It has been discussed elsewhere on the message board, but it is possible to "bend" the torsion bar down sufficiently to fit the bolts the correct way.

[svenedin]

Aren't the MC bolts 1/4" Whitworth spanner? Good idea to get a set of combination Whitworth spanners and a set of Whitworth sockets.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Bill, Sealey sell sockets that can be used on metric, standard and whitworth, due to how they grip. I went for 3/8 drive as handy for tighter spaces. I'm sure O'Riley or Nappa have same or similar over there. Or US Ebay

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[59Elva]

In the case of the banjo bolt it has to be an open end or possibly a flare nut wrench. How did the factory assemble a million Minors? Certainly not a half a flat a time on their knees with their elbows on the floor.
I’ve never asked about Whitworth wrenches at NAPA. Occasionally they were available from Moss or Eastwood. The need for them in the MGs, Sprite, Elva, Lotus was rare. When the need did arise it was a surprise and immediate and I always found some sort of work around. The premise when I bought this truck was that it wouldn’t need any wrenching other than an annual oil drain.
Finished my coffee and put out the trash. Time to get back at it before it gets hot again.

BTW. Has anyone tried flexing the torsion bar upward to install the master cylinder bolts? Without a lift I don’t have much room for a pry bar. I was thinking a bottle jack working against the weight of the truck might do. Just don’t want to do damage and create more work for myself.
Thanks,
Bill B

[Mervin]

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My car had the front on ramps with the rear lifted and supported on axle (jack) stands. There was sufficient height to pry the torsion bar down. I used a couple of small shackles with a piece of wood to protect the chassis leg when bending it. The upper shackle has to be of a small enough size to fit between the torsion bar and side of the chassis leg as well as fit over it.
I still have them somewhere and will try and post a picture.
The top shackle fits over the torsion bar.

[59Elva]

Thanks Mervin,
So you levered against the bottom of the leg. I was envisioning trying to pry against the floor. Pretty likely would have done some damage. My driveway is in very poor condition, uneven and crumbling. I don’t trust ramps and even jack stands are iffy. Of course when I have it repaved my leaky LBCs will quickly stain it.
The bottle jack seems to have worked as long as I don’t find I’ve bent or broken some else. Of course it required the clutch pedal to be removed first but that was all part of the master cylinder job and now clutch linkage rebuild. This truck project is certainly keeping me off the streets.

[Mervin]

"So you levered against the bottom of the leg."

Yes, with a piece of wood to protect it.
I'm pleased you used and pictured the bottle jack method to push the torsion bar up. I'll remember that for any future occasion.
That looks far easier and less effort!
If the torsion bar is moved a similar amount down without causing any issues, I can't see any difference for damage risk by raising it the same distance.

[svenedin]

"So you levered against the bottom of the leg."

Yes, with a piece of wood to protect it.
I'm pleased you used and pictured the bottle jack method to push the torsion bar up. I'll remember that for any future occasion.
That looks far easier and less effort!
If the torsion bar is moved a similar amount down without causing any issues, I can't see any difference for damage risk by raising it the same distance.

Yes that does look like a really good method. Thinking to myself d'oh why didn't I think of that!

Stephen

[59Elva]

Remember the clutch shaft must be out of the way. Refitting it alone was another royal PITA. Actually I don’t know much about the royals but it wasn’t easy. My arms weren’t long enough to position the brake pedal and push the clutch shaft so working alone I had the hold the brake in place when blindly batting at the clutch with a rubber mallet. Everything is back in place except the clutch linkage which I have to weld and redrill. Will the fun ever end?