Horns working intermittently

[CG75]

We have two travellers on which the horns were working just fine. During this recent hot weather both the horns stopped working. Now it’s cooled down they are both working again. I know it sounds bonkers, but could the heat have affected them?

[King Kenny]

I can't say that it is the same with you, but my Traveller horn would sometimes not sound. I checked the horn and the wiring and found nothing wrong. Then I took the horn push out from the steering wheel and cleaned the contacts. Not had a problem since.

[CG75]

@King Kenny Thank you, but we had to take the steering wheel off last year for an unrelated reason, so cleaned and checked it all over then so I don’t think that’s the problem.

[svenedin]

Not sure but I just got back from France where it was 35C for days on end. My horn push kept popping out. The horn push is held in by 2x clips that grip the metal inner ring of the steering wheel. When it gets very hot and especially if the vehicle has been baking in the sun, the metal ring expands and the horn push can lose both electrical contact and physical contact (pop out). I would guess that was your issue. If it happens again test the actual horn in the engine bay by removing it and connecting it to a battery. That will confirm my hypothesis!

Stephen

[CG75]

@svenedin Thank you for this very helpful reply. Your hypothesis makes perfect sense and (if it gets hot again) I will testing it out. Not sure there is an easy solution though!

[svenedin]

@svenedin Thank you for this very helpful reply. Your hypothesis makes perfect sense and (if it gets hot again) I will testing it out. Not sure there is an easy solution though!

I don't think there is any easy solution. I was talking to someone about this on Minors on Tour in France. He used to work for BMC and he said the horn pushes were notorious for falling out in hot weather. It's a design flaw as there are only 2 clips when there should be 3. The trouble is, if you try to fit a horn push in cold weather it can be very difficult and trying to remove one in the cold is even more tricky (they tend to break).

What I would suggest is to clean the metal inner ring of the steering wheel and carefully bend the sharp metal barbs of the clips outwards (they are very small) so as to "dig in" a bit better. You can still buy the clips if you break one so don't panic. Then in the sector where there is no clip you could jam something suitable. Thin paper or something.

Best Wishes,

Stephen

[CG75]

@svenedin Thank you! All this is really helpful and how handy that you met someone on MOT who knew about this! I assume you are going to give this go too?

[svenedin]

@svenedin Thank you! All this is really helpful and how handy that you met someone on MOT who knew about this! I assume you are going to give this go too?

Yes I am going to try this. At the moment my horn push is fitted skew-whiff as it would fit tight off centre but would fall out when properly aligned. This is due to wear in the steering wheel metal ring where the clips fit.

Stephen

[bobtail4x4]

I had an intermittent horn,
I took the push out and cleaned the contacts, plus the copper strip on the columb,

all working well ever since,

[svenedin]

I had an intermittent horn,
I took the push out and cleaned the contacts, plus the copper strip on the columb,

all working well ever since,

Yes, this is often forgotten. The horn also relies on a sort of "shoe" contact that slides on a copper ring on the steering column. That "shoe" is part of the indicator assembly. It can become very worn and be making a poor contact. To access this the steering wheel must be removed and then the indicator assembly shroud.

Stephen

[Mervin]

Certainly not relevant, but some years ago, I had a horn issue. "Banjo" type steering wheel with the horn push fixed to the steering wheel with a screw.
I had removed the steering wheel for reason(s) I can't remember. Assembled it all and, to my embarrassment, every time I turned the steering wheel (corner/junction) the horn sounded. It did attract some strange and puzzled looks.
I also can't remember what I had done wrong, but I removed the horn push assembly and found the problem.

[svenedin]

Certainly not relevant, but some years ago, I had a horn issue. "Banjo" type steering wheel with the horn push fixed to the steering wheel with a screw.
I had removed the steering wheel for reason(s) I can't remember. Assembled it all and, to my embarrassment, every time I turned the steering wheel (corner/junction) the horn sounded. It did attract some strange and puzzled looks.
I also can't remember what I had done wrong, but I removed the horn push assembly and found the problem.

That's quite funny. It's bit like the lorries that sound a warning when turning left to alert cyclists not to undertake them.

Stephen

[myoldjalopy]

I put the slip ring assembly on wrong after removing and replacing my SII steering column. Obviously wrong, because when I went to connect the battery up again, the horn sounded! I had a suspicion it might do that
I was then able to see how I had wrongly re-assembled the horn slip ring and did it properly so all good afterwards. The horn is loud when you are close to it!

[CG75]

Certainly not relevant, but some years ago, I had a horn issue. "Banjo" type steering wheel with the horn push fixed to the steering wheel with a screw.
I had removed the steering wheel for reason(s) I can't remember. Assembled it all and, to my embarrassment, every time I turned the steering wheel (corner/junction) the horn sounded. It did attract some strange and puzzled looks.
I also can't remember what I had done wrong, but I removed the horn push assembly and found the problem.

Not relevant, but very entertaining!

[CG75]

I put the slip ring assembly on wrong after removing and replacing my SII steering column. Obviously wrong, because when I went to connect the battery up again, the horn sounded! I had a suspicion it might do that
I was then able to see how I had wrongly re-assembled the horn slip ring and did it properly so all good afterwards. The horn is loud when you are close to it!

...but embarrassingly pathetic when it isn't working properly!

[svenedin]

This is a reproduction horn push from ESM. I have an original but I am reluctant to fit it because I know how easily they break when removing them.

The manufacturers of these reproductions have obviously found that these horn pushes tend to fall out because they have put a small brass shim under the clip to try to improve the fit. You can also see the barbs that can be bent further outwards with fine pliers. I jammed mine in with a piece of folded paper as well.

Stephen

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[CG75]

@svenedin Thank you for these really helpful photos and further advice.

[CG75]

An update on my horn issue...

The horn has been taken apart and appears to be as it should. We have had the horn boss out and I don't have the metal clips which seem to be causing some of you to have the same problem. I think this is because my car is a 1959 model and the horn boss is different - it just pushes down in the middle; there are no clips as in your photo. The horn boss is screwed in at the bottom so can't be pushed out by the heat. It is currently working

[geoberni]

Just to add to this directory of horn problems,for any future readers, the MM/SII Horn Push is as below.

Copper (?) disc located in the Brown Button by the tab on Right.
Button Assembly located in Bakelite Boss by cutout on Left of the chrome ring locating on the Lug.
Self cleaning function by every press operating against sprung contacts.
The 2 screws are the terminals on the underside, one for the lead that comes up the centre of the steering column, the other one earths via the screw that secures it to the steering wheel hub.

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