Horn wire down steering column

[jagnut66]

Hi,
As I was refitting Sally's interior I was struck by an 'elephant in the room'........

I have completely rewired her, including the Trafficator live feed wires and the red & white striped dash illumination wiring (not included in the loom).
Which wire got missed, yes, the horn wire down the steering column.
Again this wasn't in the loom and I have no idea where it comes out of the steering column. However, I think it is just an earth wire rather than live, so can I get away with it?
Or where does it exit and can I use it as a pull through?
Many thanks in advance for any help / advice.
Best wishes,
Mike.

DSCF4947.JPG (607.04 KiB) Viewed 12078 times

[firedrake1942]

Is it not connected internally, to the 'collar' on the steering column just after the column support?

[geoberni]

I concur with firedrake, the other end of that wire is in the blob of solder on the Slip-ring.

The Horn Circuit is a switched Earth, the connection from the horn(s) comes to the leaf spring that contacts the Slip-ring.
That then comes up to the horn push, the operation of which completes the return to the battery via the steering column.

[jagnut66]

Okay, I looked at the connection behind the column mounting bracket and saw the new purple wire (horn live), thus I didn't think that it went there.
However, going by what you say, it does but indirectly.
So I need to undo the mounting bracket and remove it, turn the column so that I can see where this 'blob' of solder is. Melt that and pull a new wire though, then re-solder the new wire in place.
If I'm honest, if it wasn't a live I might be tempted not to bother.
But, that said, I've renewed everything else......
Plus it might look okay but it is 74 years old, like the car......
Job for the weekend methinks.
Thanks and best wishes,
Mike.

[geoberni]

My '55 Basil was rewired around 1998/9 but they chose to use a later S3 loom to give him DB10 Indicators, so some 'adaptions were made to get the loom wiring to reach, the most obvious one bringing the Wiper Motor connection back inside the car..
And of course the horn wiring didn't go to a slip-ring on a S3, hence a short extension.
(He still has the 1955 fabric covered wire under the horn push.)

Rather oddly, there are 2 Black/Purple under the dash, but only 1 connected to the horn, one of those under the dash is just stowed under that black tape, not actually connected.
Basil's horn is on the engine bay floor, passenger side, I suspect the other Black/Purple is somewhere on the Driver's side for where it was moved to.

If you're removing that nut which secures the cable to the spring contact, be careful with the insulating washers which stops it connecting permanently to earth...

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[jagnut66]

Hi Berni,
Thanks for your picture, it refreshed my memory of how this is set up.
The connecting arm going to the ring on the steering column gives the clue, if I can rotate it enough to see, I'm suspecting that the connection to the wire inside the column appears somewhere on it.
If this is so and I can access it without having to dismantle everything else all the better.
I've had enough fun with this horn connection in the past, when dismantling and reassembling it, needless to say it can prove a bit temperamental.
I have ordered some purple wire, so, if I can renew it, the colour code will be correct.
Or at least near enough......
As I discovered afterwards it should be purple with black.....
Oh well.....
Best wishes,
Mike.

[geoberni]

Mike,
in your photo, this looks like it's the solder connection...

Berni
.

steering solder.JPG (136.33 KiB) Viewed 10309 times

[jagnut66]

I've just been out to the garage and rotated the column, that is it indeed.
Just waiting for the purple wire to turn up.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[myoldjalopy]

As well as the insulation which Berni mentions, be sure that the slip ring and contact spring are clean and that the spring exerts enough tension to make good contact. I had to address both issues last year when I replaced the steering column after removing it to line up the steering wheel properly.

[jagnut66]

Well that was a lot of faffing about.
The (presumably lead) solder took some melting, in the end I found it easier to file it flat to the raised lip where it passes through the slip ring, then use my hand drill and (starting small and working up in size) metal drill bits to drill the solder out.
That in itself wasn't hard, though it took longer than you might think to drill through the solder as it was quite deep.
The main reason for using a hand drill though was that I didn't want to accidently drill through the steering column......
Of course, as soon as the solder was drilled out and the old cable withdrawn, the sip ring slipped off and slid down the steering column and the moulded Bakelite insulation under it, which is in two halves, fell off!
This revealed a nicely sized hole to feed the new cable through, plenty of manoeuvrability, cable inserted and up the column in no time.....
Trouble is you can't do it that way or you'll never get the slip ring and insulation back in place.
So, with the slip ring and insulation back in place (held in place by the contact spring 'myoldjalopy' mentioned), try again....
Not so easy.....
Several attempts later, including a 'fishing expedition' to get it back out the end of the column, as it seemed to get caught up near the top, I now have a new horn push wire in place.
For the slip ring end I effectively created a small 'ball' of exposed wire, turned that into a ball of wire and solder and soldered it in place, mindful that there needs to be no exposed wire below the slip ring.
Time will tell whether this requires fettling, I'll know as soon as I reconnect the battery.....
Am I glad I did it, well yes, because after 72 years the original wire was old and stiff, the new wire is supple / very flexible by comparison.
And, hopefully, safer.
See the image below, the old cable still had it's colour coding where it was out of the light and reach of human hands for 72 years.
Best wishes,
Mike.

Old Horn push cable and new.JPG (487.08 KiB) Viewed 6663 times

Sally in new paint being reassembled - refurbished steering wheel back in place for the first time in 8 years!.JPG (1005.22 KiB) Viewed 6663 times

[geoberni]

I love the tale of your success. Congratulations
Here's Basil's original wire, as you say, it is a bit stiffer than modern equivalent, that's most likely due to the age of the PVC insulation.
Was Sally's wire PVC under the cloth?
I'm sure the earliest cars were rubber insulation, but I don't know when Lucas, BICC, et al, switched to PVC insulation.
PVC stiffens over the decades, but at least remains effective insulation, the preceding rubber insulation just crumbles.

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[jagnut66]

Was Sally's wire PVC under the cloth?

It looked to be, plain black insulation under the braided cloth colour coding.
Best wishes,
Mike.

Old Horn push cable and new - end detail.JPG (7.58 KiB) Viewed 6528 times

[myoldjalopy]

Out of curiosity, Mike, what was the inner insulator for the slip ring like? Mine is a small rectangle of what looks like old, wireless circuit board with a crude hole punched in it. Not sure if that is original, but it does the job.

[jagnut66]

Out of curiosity, Mike, what was the inner insulator for the slip ring like? Mine is a small rectangle of what looks like old, wireless circuit board with a crude hole punched in it. Not sure if that is original, but it does the job.

Black Bakelite, in two halves, circular to go around the steering column, with a slot in both sides of one half and a 'tounge' on both sides of the other, to ensure they are positioned together correctly. The hole is flat to the profile of the Bakelite, only the metal slip ring has a raised lip around the hole.
Best wishes,
Mike.

[jagnut66]

Post Script:
With a battery reconnected and the horn push retaining screw slackened off a touch (too tight and it doesn't sound and you'll sit there scratching your head for a while, like I did...... Doh! ), I now have a working horn.
I now just have to work through the rest of the electrics and bring them back to life after their long hibernation.......
Best wishes,
Mike.

[myoldjalopy]

Out of curiosity, Mike, what was the inner insulator for the slip ring like? Mine is a small rectangle of what looks like old, wireless circuit board with a crude hole punched in it. Not sure if that is original, but it does the job.

Black Bakelite, in two halves, circular to go around the steering column, with a slot in both sides of one half and a 'tounge' on both sides of the other, to ensure they are positioned together correctly. The hole is flat to the profile of the Bakelite, only the metal slip ring has a raised lip around the hole.
Best wishes,
Mike.

Sorry, Mike, I didn't explain myself properly. I meant the insulation behind the live feed - the connection shown in Berni's first pic above. Under the nut which holds the connection together, there is a washer, an insulating sleeve (like a little top hat), the contact brush, the feed wire, and finally a flat insulating piece that sits against the steering column support bracket. That is the piece I meant. On mine is a small rectangle of what looks like old, wireless circuit board with an irregular shaped hole in it, but I'm not sure if that is original as it is so crudely made.

[geoberni]

Sorry, Mike, I didn't explain myself properly. I meant the insulation behind the live feed - the connection shown in Berni's first pic above. Under the nut which holds the connection together, there is a washer, an insulating sleeve (like a little top hat), the contact brush, the feed wire, and finally a flat insulating piece that sits against the steering column support bracket. That is the piece I meant. On mine is a small rectangle of what looks like old, wireless circuit board with an irregular shaped hole in it, but I'm not sure if that is original as it is so crudely made.

I know the bit you mean, item 7 'Insulator'...

horn connection.JPG (56 KiB) Viewed 4073 times

Here's a photo of Basil's, the corner is chipped off, but I'd say it's Paxolin, which I first encountered in my RAF electrical training in the early 70s, but I believe it originated around 1920. The top hat washer is made of the same, just thicker .
.

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[myoldjalopy]

Yes, that's it. From what you say, I suspect mine is the original paxolin. But the hole in it isn't as neat as in the diagram, I suspect it got slightly damaged at one point. But it still does its job

[jagnut66]

Sorry 'myoldjalopy' I didn't understand which bit you were referring to.

As a postscript to all of this, I have found one electrical gremlin, in the form of my light switch.
After 64 years of 'push pull' and 8 years of inactivity, the sidelight switching inside it seems to no longer function.
The circuit itself tested fine, with the switch 'by-passed' all the lights illuminated, so I have ordered a new switch.
Still at 72 years old I can't complain, if the replacement lasts as long I won't have to worry about finding another.......
Best wishes,
Mike.