Front indicators not working

[DebF CME979A]

Hello!
I have just finished bolting on a new front wing and re-installing the headlight on my 1962/3 saloon, it has the white side lights which flash for indicators. I have renewed the earth connections - two on each side for the lights and everything works except the front indicators will not flash. The rear are perfect, all the lights are lovely and bright all the wires look as good as they should, but the front sidelights just will not flash. I can't work out why when the rear are completely fine. I have looked at some of the wiring diagrams on here but they show the flasher unit divides the indicators by left and right (for obvious reasons). Are there some more earths that I am missing?
Has anyone else come across this problem and willing to share a possible solution?

Thank you
Debbie
CME979A Almond Green 2 door saloon Dual Personality - old style car with 1098 engine, maintained not-restored.

[simmitc]

Hello Debbie, welcome to the Messageboard. I'm sure that we can get this sorted for you. Good earths are a great starting point.

The car is listed as 1963, so you need to make sure that you are looking at the correct wiring diagram. Do you have the brake lights flashing or separate amber indicators? Is there a relay box on the right hand inner wing? With the front side lights as indicators, I expect that you do have the relay, and therefore need to look at the correct wiring diagram; but one can never be sure how a car has been modified after 60 years.

[Andmurph]

When this happened to us it was faulty earth connections under the wing. The black pig tail wire coming from the bulb socket had perished horribly. A new length of wire and a quick clean up fixed it.

[Bill_qaz]

Have a look if you have this on driver side inner wing.

20260122_152009.jpg (709.44 KiB) Viewed 7610 times

If you have the relay here is the diagram for the indicators.
NOTE: Ignore the wires shown in green which are for retro fitted 4 way flashers.

Screenshot_20220122-204756_Chrome.jpg (92.99 KiB) Viewed 7601 times

[DebF CME979A]

Hi, thanks for the welcome and thanks for the detailed reply guys.
I do have the box on the inner wing, do you think it may be a fault in there? The wiring on that has not been disturbed - it is almost entirely original wiring, that's not to say it hasn't broken inside... Looking at my workshop manual, I can see that the sidelights are on a separate circuit. Is the relay repairable if I take it off and get inside it?
Thanks for your help!
Debbie

[Bill_qaz]

Are your rear indicators still flashing brake lights or separate indicators.
Where they working before you changed the wings?
Do you have a multimeter or test light, if so swith the indicator on and test out put from the relay on each terminal Left front and rear then right front and rear as marked on the diagram. If output is ok it wiring from there to the light, so recheck the connections.

If relay is faulty front output missing then.
When mine was faulty, same model as yours, I just moved the wire to run front and rear off the same side terminal that was working as my rear indicators are separate from brake lights.

[DebF CME979A]

Hi Bill
I have flashing brake lights, no separate indicators. I have a multimeter but I have previously been befuddled by it. I will have to work that out and I'll let you know how I get on. It's all good for the grey matter.
I have also found a youtube vid where someone opens and cleans up the relay so perhaps I'll have a go at that.
Wish me luck!
Thank you

[myoldjalopy]

Check all the connections are good before opening up the relay........often such things are bad earths or poor connections.

[Bill_qaz]

Hi Bill
I have flashing brake lights, no separate indicators. I have a multimeter but I have previously been befuddled by it. I will have to work that out and I'll let you know how I get on. It's all good for the grey matter.
I have also found a youtube vid where someone opens and cleans up the relay so perhaps I'll have a go at that.
Wish me luck!
Thank you

In that case you can't bridge front and rear. So if your rears are working the its the two front output terminals you need to test.

Put your multimeter on the V_ symbol for volts dc. Put the black lead negative to battery earth. Put the red wire to the relay terminal you want to test.(2or6) Turn ignition on and put indicator switch to the appropriate side. If the relay is working you will now see battery voltage circa 12volts.
Green wire to left terminal 2 green and white wire to right terminal 6

Just a thought you have got the correct double filament bulbs in the front side lights and both bulbs are good?

[DebF CME979A]

Drat, my son has borrowed my multimeter, I'll have to wait to get it back.
I definitely have double filament bulbs in the one side - I will check the other. I really appreciate the detailed response.
Thanks
Debbie

[Bill_qaz]

Drat, my son has borrowed my multimeter, I'll have to wait to get it back.
I definitely have double filament bulbs in the one side - I will check the other. I really appreciate the detailed response.
Thanks
Debbie

Unusual for a normal flasher can type to have the rear flasher going at normal rate if the front isn't working as it needs 2x21w bulb load. (Type in picture)
Unless you have a non load dependant electronic flasher unit.

A test light, not led, is useful tool as the bulb puts a load on the circuit. A meter can show 12v but the test lamp would be dim if bad connection.

20250213_151437.jpg (250.59 KiB) Viewed 7318 times

[Owlsman]

CME979A Almond Green 2 door saloon Dual Personality - old style car with 1098 engine, maintained not-restored.

Hi Debbie - sorry, I cannot help much with the electrical issue you have with the front indicators but I can help you get your Minor logged onto the Dual Personality register! I'm sure you are correct that you do have a DP minor, so I have sent you a PM with details how to get it on to the register.

Alan Smith (Co-registrar of the MMOC Dual Personality register)

[ManyMinors]

As Bill says, get yourself a little 12volt test light. Follow the indicator wiring back to the relay unit and see if there is a live supply there. If the rear indicator is working, it will be easy enough to trace the fault which is most likely just a poor connection.

CME 979A was a well known car in Morris Minor circles a few years ago. Although you say "not restored" in your earlier post, it certainly has been - and more than once I expect. There are several photos of the car after its restoration, in Ray Newell's book "Original Morris Minor" which was published in 1993. The car was also featured in classic car magazines and so on.
Some years after that, I remember seeing the car in fairly poor condition - particularly the underneath - and sometime after that it was written off by an insurance company as being beyond economic repair. That was around 20 years ago, so it is great to hear it is now running around again! It must have had a very full life

[DebF CME979A]

Hello!
Update on the indicators: we've got them working.
Thanks to you guys for pointing me towards the wiring diagrams in the Haynes Manual.
Lots of studying and head scratching but it turns out the Dual Personality is the key: I have the old style relay set up but wired with the new style wiring loom, once I realized that, the loom colours began to make perfect sense and I found two broken/incorrectly connected wires.
As soon as I had set them straight it started to work - even the indicator stalk light worked after many years!
I am so impressed that this same old wiring is happily working again, it really is amazing to me.
I have polished her up and re-fixed the sidelight she is ready to go.
Thank you so much for your support!
Deb

[DebF CME979A]

As Bill says, get yourself a little 12volt test light. Follow the indicator wiring back to the relay unit and see if there is a live supply there. If the rear indicator is working, it will be easy enough to trace the fault which is most likely just a poor connection.

CME 979A was a well known car in Morris Minor circles a few years ago. Although you say "not restored" in your earlier post, it certainly has been - and more than once I expect. There are several photos of the car after its restoration, in Ray Newell's book "Original Morris Minor" which was published in 1993. The car was also featured in classic car magazines and so on.
Some years after that, I remember seeing the car in fairly poor condition - particularly the underneath - and sometime after that it was written off by an insurance company as being beyond economic repair. That was around 20 years ago, so it is great to hear it is now running around again! It must have had a very full life

I love to hear about CME979A I absolutely love driving it and the privilege of having it in my garage.
My brother bought it as a write-off in 2008 from WJ Furbers in Whixall (now sadly gone) he should have the credit for getting it back on the road and he still occasionally helps me with it. I have owned it since 2012, it has now done over 97K miles.
My favourite is the film where Tiff Needell drives it to demonstrate cornering and skid performance on old Top Gear - it's like watching your granny doing parkour! The link is still somewhere on this forum.
Deb

[geoberni]

Hello!
Update on the indicators: we've got them working.
Thanks to you guys for pointing me towards the wiring diagrams in the Haynes Manual.
Lots of studying and head scratching but it turns out the Dual Personality is the key: I have the old style relay set up but wired with the new style wiring loom, once I realized that, the loom colours began to make perfect sense and I found two broken/incorrectly connected wires.
As soon as I had set them straight it started to work - even the indicator stalk light worked after many years!
I am so impressed that this same old wiring is happily working again, it really is amazing to me.
I have polished her up and re-fixed the sidelight she is ready to go.
Thank you so much for your support!
Deb

That's for the update Deb.

I missed this Topic as I was away on holiday while it was all going on.

The "I have the old style relay set up but wired with the new style wiring loom," remark has totally befuddled me, but if you have got it working, that's all that matters.
My '55 SII was fitted with a DB10 Relay Indicator system when he was rebuilt in the late 1990s, but then fiddled with by later owners.
As I have a relevant electrical background, aircraft rather than cars, I restored him to his intended Indicator configuration.

As you've indicated that you are a MMOC member, you might find the article I wrote for the Nov/Dec 2024 edition of Minor Matters, describing the DB10 system operation, helpful knowledge.
If you haven't got the edition still, it's in the Members Area of the main website.

[Bill_qaz]

Glad you got your non indicators indicating and another dual personality is on the road. Do you mean this clip or is there one with your actual car. He also done one with a traveller taking a race car to the circuit.

https://youtu.be/ooBJ2Z2sZvo?is=k3XVG4gPlT6NWtmf

[DebF CME979A]

Hi Bill
There is one with CME979A in person, I found the link on this Forum a few years ago.
Not sure if this link is going to post correctly....

https://youtu.be/shwgNV36xFA?si=FKi_KtkjXmYaewt-


Debbie

[Bill_qaz]

Nice little bit of history for your car, you can try to download so you can keep a copy.