Hard to start - ignition timing issues?

[svenedin]

At least on older models, the fuel line goes over the gearbox cross member, so it can be dropped without disturbing the fuel line. Only the wire loom goes through the cross member.

Yes the fuel pipe goes above the gearbox crossmember to allow removal of the crossmember but it still should have a protective sleeve.

Stephen

[KevinB]

Thank you both.

I'm trying to clean out the tank at the moment. No decision on replacement yet. Thanks Stephen, I understand it's not as clear as I first thought. I will come back to the fuel line replacement.

Would decorating caulk be a suitable alternative to dum dum when I put it back in?

Spotted this muck in the filler tube. See photo. It doesn't seem to be in the tank however.

20260423_121904~2.jpg (911.16 KiB) Viewed 45890 times

[svenedin]

I don't know what that red goo is. Is it the filler pipe deteriorating in response to ethanol in the fuel? Or is it some kind of sealant??? Looks a bit similar to red liquid gasket/sealant. Or is it paint that was originally on the inside of the tank?

Decorating caulk is not a suitable substitute for Dum Dum. It needs a proper bed of Dum Dum to settle the tank on.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

In your picture the outside of the hose has a red appearance, so I believe its delamination of the hose likely from ethanol in fuel.
I can't see how paint could travel up from the tank. What you thought was rust which you said wiped of easily is probably the same residue from the hose settling in the bottom of the tank.
Dumdum is readily available in a role so easier to apply for tank seating than in a tin. Fleabay Amozon etc

[myoldjalopy]

Yes, the old hose on my car (1955 SII) was red and did the same thing. I replaced it.
When I replaced my tank many years ago, there were the remains of an old gasket, AFAICR, but no sealant. I just cut a gasket out of the cardboard box the tank came in and all has been well since.........

[KevinB]

Thank you all. Yes I agree, it's probably the hose deteriorating. To be replaced...

Original, flat Dumdum is no longer available apparently, but there are rolls now of a circular new version, I understand.

When I replaced my tank many years ago, there were the remains of an old gasket, AFAICR, but no sealant. I just cut a gasket out of the cardboard box the tank came in and all has been well since.........

Thank you for this, myoldjalopy!

[KevinB]

An update please..

I have washed out the fuel tank with diesel and it didn't look too bad to me. So no new tank for the time being. Put it back in with a new filler pipe hose from ESM, but keeping the existing (kinked) fuel pipe. Fresh petrol, of course. Fired up first time, to my astonishment! And ran very smoothly for 10 mins, when I turned it off.

Next day (today), fuel pump ticked rapidly but refused to draw through petrol. I don't think this car likes me! Left it for a couple of hours, tried again and then it started up! And ran happily for another 10 mins. But feeling the fuel pump, it was ticking erratically, as though struggling to draw petrol.

So I'm thinking the old, kinked petrol pipe is indeed the problem? I have a new pipe, but feel that fitting it underneath is beyond me, so I'm trying to find a mobile mechanic.

In the meantime as contingency, thinking again about Stephen's clever "bodge", cutting off the damaged end of the pipe and joining to the pump with rubber hose. So I have ordered a set of union threads that may prove useful? I don't know what threads the Hardi pump has.

RTG 5mm 8mm 10mm Universal Fuel Pump Tails Connectors Unions 1/8" npt Thread

Any thoughts will be gratefully received.

[jaekl]

Rapid pumping is an indication of an air leak on the supply side or a leak on the engine side. A restriction in the supply line may cause rapid pumping on a warm day and you have cold weather fuel. They change the blend, and winter fuel vapourises at lower temperatures. A restriction will cause the fuel pressure to drop and cause vapourisation. This is a very unique combination of factors when an air leak is much more common. Also a hole in the diaphragm often will function fine when cold but will leak more later to the point where the pump can no longer deliver.

[svenedin]

Rapid pumping is an indication of an air leak on the supply side or a leak on the engine side. A restriction in the supply line may cause rapid pumping on a warm day and you have cold weather fuel. They change the blend, and winter fuel vapourises at lower temperatures. A restriction will cause the fuel pressure to drop and cause vapourisation. This is a very unique combination of factors when an air leak is much more common. Also a hole in the diaphragm often will function fine when cold but will leak more later to the point where the pump can no longer deliver.

I was just talking about the differences between winter petrol and summer petrol a few minutes ago! My car was last filled with fuel in December and yesterday (which was 25 C) the fuel pump was ticking away madly whilst I was stuck in very slow moving traffic. The idle was rougher than usual as well. Today I filled up the nearly empty tank and we similarly got stuck in traffic. No excessive ticking of the fuel pump whatsoever. For anybody interested there is a long article about fuel on the FBHVC website: https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/fuels

An air leak on the inlet side would cause the pump to tick rapidly all the time not just when the weather and engine are hot. A leak on the supply side should be obvious (fuel leaking).

Stephen

[KevinB]

I was hoping not to need to bring up this old thread again ...

In the past couple of weeks, the car has been running on and off, but still poorly and erratically. It's currently with a local, experienced mechanic at his workshop who has replaced the damaged fuel pipe as discussed before. But he has reported today, he still can't get it to run properly.

The erratic, random running continues, but he can hear now an arcing noise, somewhere near the distributor maybe. He has already tried another coil, even though I replaced it with a new one a while ago, but this made no difference.

So he's thinking now of a new distributor with electronic ignition? This has been discussed here before and there were thoughts that those readily available, may not be very good? But is it worth a try? Or something else?

I've told him I would consult you all. So I'm asking for your thoughts again please, on this seemingly never ending trouble!

[myoldjalopy]

Check all the ignition leads for degradation - and the dizzy cap for cracks/tracking. Unlikely to be the dizzy itself that is arcing........

[mobylette]

Observe the HT system, with the engine running, in the dark. Any arcing will be obvious. You need to fix the underlying problems before changing to electronic ignition, it should run properly with the standard set up. The cheap replacement chineseum distributors are worse than useless.

[geoberni]

Although Basil has electronic 'points' it's only because a past owner had them fitted.
I concur with others here that it needs to be working correctly with conventional points before considering a swap to electronic.
Otherwise you may be in a situation of temporarily masking an issue only for it to reoccur later.

[svenedin]

Duplicate

[svenedin]

Arcing is obviously something high tension. Check distributor rotor, distributor cap, HT leads. Sometimes the connection is poor to the coil and the metal connector inside the rubber boot needs opening up slightly for a snug fit (if this is not tight it causes arcing and misfires). Only use ignition stuff from Distributor Doctor if you want the best.

Having said the above, you would have arcing at the points with a failed condenser. That is low tension of course.

Regarding electronic ignition, my recent experience in France has shown that points are much more tolerant of less than perfect electrics.

Stephen

[KevinB]

Thank you all for your help.
I agree with the advice the standard points setup should be working correctly, before trying to "improve " it.
I have fed back your thoughts to the workshop.

[mike1864]

If you've got a multimeter, check the resistance of each HT lead, from distributor post to the plug/coil end. They should all be about the same (perhaps 10 kohm?)