Tie Bar No Pin?

[radioactiveman]

Hello, forgive me if I’m being stupid…

I’ve today gone to change my tie bar bushes out to poly ones… I was expecting the castle nut to have a pin through it… but it doesn’t and there’s no hole to receive one either. Have I misunderstood how this should work?

TYIA,
James

[King Kenny]

Just been out to look at mine. I have Nyloc nuts at both ends.

[les]

They usually have a split pin through the nut and tie bar, check to see if the bar has the appropriate hole. I also think I recall there being an issue with using two poly bushes on a tie bar, rather than one rubber and one poly

[radioactiveman]

Thank you the replies (and for looking!).

I have a castle nut and no hole. I’m guessing maybe someone’s swapped out a nyloc one for a castle one at some point. Looks like it’s been that way a while.

The poly bushes go on fine (mine are green, so maybe not the super firm one) and I’ve been able to tighten the nut until it reaches the end of the thread (as recommended in another post I read).

[svenedin]

I don't recall tie bars being made without the hole for a split pin? Standard set-up is castle nut and split-pin. I find split-pins very irritating and annoying myself so I have used nyloc nuts instead but another Minor owner told me he had done the same and the nylocs worked loose. His tie bar very nearly fell off. It was only an annoying rattle that alerted him that something was wrong before a disaster. For that reason it is on my list of jobs to go back to castle nut and split-pin. Irritating to fit and remove but the safest option. If you use nylocs I would suggest you check them at the same time as greasing the trunnions.

Stephen

[simmitc]

Castle nuts should be secured with a split pin. I have seen rods where a small mild steel pin has been used. This has then rusted and broken off when being removed. When the nut is unscrewed, it cuts the remaining stub of the pin flush with the rod. Coupled with rust flakes, this causes an appearance of no hole, but a good wire brushing of the thread reveals the truth. Rusted pins can be driven out with a suitable drift or drilled out if you have a suitable clamp/guide. Do not drill a second hole as this will weaken the rod, always clean the original hole.

I recommend using stainless steel pins to avoid the above problem.

If bushes are too thick, then the nut may not go fully home and therefore covers any hole that is present.

[svenedin]

Castle nuts should be secured with a split pin. I have seen rods where a small mild steel pin has been used. This has then rusted and broken off when being removed. When the nut is unscrewed, it cuts the remaining stub of the pin flush with the rod. Coupled with rust flakes, this causes an appearance of no hole, but a good wire brushing of the thread reveals the truth. Rusted pins can be driven out with a suitable drift or drilled out if you have a suitable clamp/guide. Do not drill a second hole as this will weaken the rod, always clean the original hole.

I recommend using stainless steel pins to avoid the above problem.

If bushes are too thick, then the nut may not go fully home and therefore covers any hole that is present.

+1 for stainless steel pins. Absolutely definitely.

Stephen

[simmitc]

Use the search facility for posts containing "tie bar bush" by "philthehill" for some very good advice. Summarised as:

Fit the SuperFlex bush to the front of the tie bar mount bracket and a rubber bush to the rear of the tie bar mount bracket. This combination of bushes and location has been used many times without problems.

[svenedin]

Use the search facility for posts containing "tie bar bush" by "philthehill" for some very good advice. Summarised as:

Fit the SuperFlex bush to the front of the tie bar mount bracket and a rubber bush to the rear of the tie bar mount bracket. This combination of bushes and location has been used many times without problems.

Yes. This exactly what I did. There was no way that 2x Superflex bushes per side would fit on my car.

Stephen

[radioactiveman]

Thanks all. Appreciate everyone’s input as ever.

Sadly when I got to the other side there was at least a split pin but the castle nut was rock solid Nothing’s ever simple.

The broken pin/rust theory sounds pretty plausible. It’s annoying it was left like that, though.

Anyway, I’ve ordered some 3/8 BSF nylon nuts… and a nut splitter to deal with the stuck one. My car gets driven a couple of times a year so hopefully the nylon ones will be sufficient.

[radioactiveman]

Use the search facility for posts containing "tie bar bush" by "philthehill" for some very good advice. Summarised as:

Fit the SuperFlex bush to the front of the tie bar mount bracket and a rubber bush to the rear of the tie bar mount bracket. This combination of bushes and location has been used many times without problems.

Yes. This exactly what I did. There was no way that 2x Superflex bushes per side would fit on my car.

Stephen

Mine must be pretty small as there wasn’t any issue at all. They’re just the ones in the ESM kit.

[svenedin]

Thanks all. Appreciate everyone’s input as ever.

Sadly when I got to the other side there was at least a split pin but the castle nut was rock solid Nothing’s ever simple.

The broken pin/rust theory sounds pretty plausible. It’s annoying it was left like that, though.

Anyway, I’ve ordered some 3/8 BSF nylon nuts… and a nut splitter to deal with the stuck one. My car gets driven a couple of times a year so hopefully the nylon ones will be sufficient.

Oh ok! I forget that some cars are used very little. Yes you should be absolutely fine. Maybe the Superflex bushes are thicker than the ESM ones?

Stephen


This is a Superflex polyurethane bush. It has a central locating peg to prevent the tie bar from chattering in the hole in the metal tie bar plate.

IMG_9163.jpeg (412.72 KiB) Viewed 9041 times

Picture of tie bar with polyurethane bush at the front and rubber bush at the rear. You can see how compressed the rubber bush is. On my car there was absolutely no chance of fitting 2x polyurethane bushes.

IMG_8857.jpeg (1.48 MiB) Viewed 9041 times

[philthehill]

I would advise that the hole for the split pin is there at the front end of the tie bar but with the remains of the split pin in it. A common situation.
The Marina has similar tie rods (which can be fitted to the Minor) but with a plain nut and a 'R' clip through a hole to the front of the nut. I have not known the plain nut to loosen and end up against the 'R' clip. The other advantage of the Marina tie rod is that the large thick flat washer to the rear of the bush is welded to the tie bar so it remains in place and does not move or distort like the dished removable washer of the Minor tie bar.
The original Minor rubber tie bar bushes had the raised centre but very few if any of the current after market rubber bushes have the raised centre. It is most important to have the raised centre portion otherwise the tie rod may rattle in the tie bar bracket. As the tie bar is not articulated at the rear it is most important that it is centralised before fully tightening the yoke and yoke pin nuts.

[svenedin]

Here is an original rubber bush that I took off. This one was actually in very good condition but they weren't all like that. It didn't have a central raised section or if it did, it has long gone.

Stephen

IMG_8852.jpeg (1.62 MiB) Viewed 9027 times

[svenedin]

Picture to illustrate how a split pin breaks and blocks the hole. Also why it's a good idea to use a stainless steel split pin.

This is actually my car when it.....ahem.....got a bit neglected.

Stephen

IMG_8837.jpeg (707.72 KiB) Viewed 9022 times

[radioactiveman]

Thanks all. Appreciate everyone’s input as ever.

Sadly when I got to the other side there was at least a split pin but the castle nut was rock solid Nothing’s ever simple.

The broken pin/rust theory sounds pretty plausible. It’s annoying it was left like that, though.

Anyway, I’ve ordered some 3/8 BSF nylon nuts… and a nut splitter to deal with the stuck one. My car gets driven a couple of times a year so hopefully the nylon ones will be sufficient.

Oh ok! I forget that some cars are used very little. Yes you should be absolutely fine. Maybe the Superflex bushes are thicker than the ESM ones?

Stephen


This is a Superflex polyurethane bush. It has a central locating peg to prevent the tie bar from chattering in the hole in the metal tie bar plate.


IMG_9163.jpeg


Picture of tie bar with polyurethane bush at the front and rubber bush at the rear. You can see how compressed the rubber bush is. On my car there was absolutely no chance of fitting 2x polyurethane bushes.


IMG_8857.jpeg

Much more substantial than the ESM ones!

I now have both new castle nuts and nylon nuts coming so there’ll be a solution in there somewhere.

Thanks for the help everyone

[oliver90owner]

Castle nuts are re-usable. Nyloc nuts “should’’ only be used once (but are often screwed-unscrewed-screwed … and then the owner/user is surprised when they do come loose!

[radioactiveman]

After an amount of colourful language - due to the seized nut and seemingly fused old split pin - I was able to get everything installed. I’m a little bit concerned as the bushes don’t look that compressed, especially compared to others I’ve seen.

IMG_3603.jpeg (1.78 MiB) Viewed 8103 times

IMG_3605.jpeg (1.85 MiB) Viewed 8103 times

Also, picture of my new wheels just because

IMG_3554.png (2.49 MiB) Viewed 8103 times

[philthehill]

Those bushes are adequately compressed and no further action required.

[svenedin]

Those look good and secure. I have had a tie bar come loose due to a rubber bush disintegrating. It is very obvious; the tie bar chatters under braking. You don't want the bushes excessively compressed as it could impede articulation and cause the bush to wear out prematurely.

Stephen