Hard to start - ignition timing issues?

[KevinB]

Thank you Stephen. I didn't like my idea of trying to prime it all manually with petrol!

The pump is ticking rapidly, but nothing comes out. So I took off the metal inlet pipe from the tank and put my thumb on the end with the pump running and I could not feel ANY suction against my thumb. Should I?
This leads me to think there's something wrong with the way I have put the pump back together?

I will try to find or get a suitable tube so I can test the pipe for blockage, as soon as I can. Blowing into it sounds far preferable to removing the pipe and or the tank.
But first, I will try to work out what’s wrong with the pump.

[svenedin]

Thank you Stephen. I didn't like my idea of trying to prime it all manually with petrol!

The pump is ticking rapidly, but nothing comes out. So I took off the metal inlet pipe from the tank and put my thumb on the end with the pump running and I could not feel ANY suction against my thumb. Should I?
This leads me to think there's something wrong with the way I have put the pump back together?

I will try to find or get a suitable tube so I can test the pipe for blockage, as soon as I can. Blowing into it sounds far preferable to removing the pipe and or the tank.
But first, I will try to work out what’s wrong with the pump.

OK so the pump is working electrically but not pumping fuel. It is possible that you have done nothing wrong in your reassembly but the pump already had a split in the diaphragm. I did notice in your picture that the fibre washer on the inlet spigot looked a bit ropey. Maybe that's where it draws in air. Just a guess. As to whether you should feel suction with your finger, yes you should feel some but it isn't much actually as this pump operates at a low pressure.

Do check that the ring of screws that secure the body of the pump to the base of the pump are tight. The diaphragm is sandwiched between the body of the pump and the base of the pump. Usually these screws are very tight. If they should become loose the pump will leak air there.

In an ideal world, you would test the pipe from the tank is clear and then try a known good fuel pump. Perhaps somebody from your branch could lend you a fuel pump? Many people keep a working spare. I certainly do. Or, get a reconditioned fuel pump from Club Spares (much cheaper than a brand new one) and then rebuild your existing pump at your leisure and keep it as a spare.

Stephen

[KevinB]

In an ideal world, you would test the pipe from the tank is clear and then try a known good fuel pump.

I tried to check if the pipe is clear, but couldn't get a good enough seal onto the pipe union. But I did get a new pump (Hardi), which fitted straight on in place of the original SU.
It was pumping beautifully and filled the float chamber, then it seemed to struggle to get more fuel from the pipe. The pump kept ticking rapidly, but I could not see any more petrol arriving in the inline filter, so I turned it off after the warning of potential overheating.

So, I'm back to a blocked fuel pipe, I think? Please advise me. I'm also unsure how to go about draining and removing the pipe, if I have to go down that route. I have not seen anything on that in the manuals.

Suggestions please.

[svenedin]

The likelihood is that your tank is rusty inside and this is blocking the fuel pipe. My suggestion would be to remove the fuel sender so that you can look inside the tank and assess the condition. To remove the sender you need to remove one side of the boot shelf (saloon/convertible). Have a new gasket to hand. Of course take great care around the fuel tank. Disconnect the battery first and obviously no smoking! If you look inside and it’s not too bad, unblock the tank to pump pipe with compressed air and then drain the tank of all crud using the drain. You can filter the petrol through a coffee filter and use it again. If very corroded, fit a new tank. If the old fuel line is steel it’s probably corroded too. If copper or Kunifer (cupronickel) just unblock it and reuse.

Stephen

[KevinB]

Thank you Stephen.

Here's a photo of my fuel pipe. Kunifer? It has been damaged at some point, as can be seen.
.

Fuel pipe into pump connection

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[svenedin]

Actually you may have two problems. Rust from the tank that would normally be tolerable is probably blocking the pipe where it is damaged and restricted.

I think as well as inspecting the inside of the tank you need to fit a new fuel pipe. These are available in copper or Kunifer (better) from ESM. The new pipe is pre-fitted with the required fittings but will arrive as a coil and needs to be bent to follow the course of the old pipe. Large radius bends are possible by hand with care but a proper pipe bender is needed for smaller radius bends as the pipe may kink especially in Kunifer which is harder to bend than copper.

Incidentally, that twisting damage is done by trying to undo the pipe nut without holding the pump fitting nut from turning with another spanner.

A bodge is possible but not recommended. You could cut the damaged pipe before the damage at a straight section (use a proper pipe cutter), fit flexible fuel hose over the metal pipe secured with a jubilee clip and then take the outlet spigot from your old pump and fit it to the inlet of your new pump. That will then accept the flexible hose. It would do as a get you home fix. It assumes the fittings are interchangeable between SU and Hardi which I don’t actually know for certain.

Stephen

[geoberni]

Incidentally, that twisting damage is done by trying to undo the pipe nut without holding the pump fitting nut from turning with another spanner.

Stephen

I totally agree in this particular example, but don't forget it can also result from the pipe seizing in the fitting, as can happen with brake unions.
I've had to destroy a brake pipe before now when removing a solid pipe.
At least the fuel line on the minor has the braised on fitting which can be held with some pliers and not get damaged.
With these types of fitting I always watch the pipe very carefully to spot any sign of twisting.

[KevinB]

Thank you both. Stephen, your 'bodge' is clever! But thankfully, I'm not in 'get you home' mode.

I shall do the investigations suggested and report back. And get a new pipe, I think.

[KevinB]

Embarrassing. I can't get the left panel out of the boot shelf to check the tank. Having removed six fixings (some had to be drilled out), the panel moves at bit, but won't come out.

It seems to have been fitted before the metalwork was fixed! Any ideas please? I am doing something stupid.

[geoberni]

I don't have a Traveller, but it's under the lip at the back from the looks of it.

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So raise it slightly at the front and then move it forward while lifting

[svenedin]

Check very carefully that you haven't missed a fixing. Then, look at your photo and you will see that the edge of the boot shelf (nearest the back of the car) is being retained by being underneath the steel rail. Pop up the front of the shelf first and slide it forwards and it should come free. It can also get caught around the outer edge (near the fuel filler).

Stephen

[svenedin]

I don't have a Traveller, but it's under the lip at the back from the looks of it.
Lip.JPG
So raise it slightly at the front and then move it forward while lifting

Exactly that. We replied at the same time Berni!

Stephen

[KevinB]

Thanks, but it just won't move up or forward at the front left corner. It's wedged against the metalwork. So it won't come out from under the rail.

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I shall have a fresh look tomorrow.

[svenedin]

Thanks, but it just won't move up or forward at the front left corner. It's wedged against the metalwork. So it won't come out from under the rail.

20260417_175328~2.jpg

I shall have a fresh look tomorrow.

If you are sure you have found all the fixings it is just jammed in that corner. It's wood and it can swell when damp.

Stephen

[geoberni]

Thanks, but it just won't move up or forward at the front left corner. It's wedged against the metalwork. So it won't come out from under the rail.

Sometimes you have to work in a combination of moves.
Try fully back to get the small gap you require at the front, then you raise and move forward.
Possible while moving towards the centreline to get it from around the filler pipe.

I was removing the Alternator from my Kuga Mk1 on Monday; that's like trying to solve a 3D Chinese Wooden Puzzle....

[KevinB]

Thank you both. I shall check again carefully for missed fixings tomorrow. But, I think I will have to "adjust" the wood in that front corner

[svenedin]

Thank you both. I shall check again carefully for missed fixings tomorrow. But, I think I will have to "adjust" the wood in that front corner

I seem to recall my boot shelf was quite awkward too. I slid my arm in underneath and pushed from underneath I dimly recollect.

Stephen

[KevinB]

Thank you Stephen. I'm looking forward to some Morris fun tomorrow!

I will report back.

Kevin

[jaekl]

Did you get the self tapper along the left edge? When it lays flat in the normal position, how much gap is in the front? Is it enough to move the panel forward to clear the back edge? The next approach is to pry out the right corner in the back and get it above the central member and persuade the panel to the right. Loosening the right panel allows more flexibility of the metal work.

[ManyMinors]

I had mine out recently and agree - it is a very tight fit! Once you have all the screws out it is just a matter of perseverance and force I'm afraid
I think I used a large screwdriver as a lever at the rear.