Disc brake conversion

[matthorton]

I appreciate this has been asked many times regarding Marina or Ford based conversion kits and I understand the need for the additional reservoir.
My question is whether there is the need to change master cylinder as the ESM kit says neither conversion kit works with the patented master cylinder.
How do I know if I have the original / suitable cylinder and what is the difference?

[philthehill]

The original master cylinder is perfectly adequate whether either the Ford or Marina disc brake set up is installed.
The top hat seal must be removed otherwise the calliper pistons will not back off and the pads will be pressing against the disc at all times.
There is absolutely no need for an additional reservoir but it can be fitted if you so wish.
I have the Marina disc brake set up fitted to my Minor and without the additional reservoir and the set up has worked well for many years.

[matthorton]

Thanks, that’s really helpful, I had noticed I needed to change the cap but what do you think ESM mean when they say to remove the ‘None return valve’ have you done this?

[simmitc]

I think that the NRV is the top hat seal. If you look at the exploded parts diagram of the MC, you will see the seal.

The replacement cap is used with the remote reservoir - the original has a vent hole which would allow the remote reservoir to drain, the replacement is solid.

My view is that the remote reservoir is far better, not so much because of capacity, but because it is easier to check with less chance of dirt entering the system.

[Bill_qaz]

Take a look at this video, '' https://share.google/7m08wPQhB0yA7RLXY

Like Phil, marina discs and standard resevoir . Never felt the need for a remote reservoir. Two minute job to check level on standard set up. Lots of comments on forum about leaking pipes on
some remote kits.
Your choice

[Sleeper]

... and if you feel the need for a LARGE remote resevoir, I think you should be looking elsewhere for a problem...

IMG_20240421_134435.jpg (1.36 MiB) Viewed 6983 times

Clutch and brake...

John ;-)

[King Kenny]

I have a Ford based disks from Mr Owen Butron. Never felt the need for a remote reservoir.

MC Mod 12.42.00 copy.jpg (25.72 KiB) Viewed 6964 times

[geoberni]

I think that the NRV is the top hat seal. If you look at the exploded parts diagram of the MC, you will see the seal.

The replacement cap is used with the remote reservoir - the original has a vent hole which would allow the remote reservoir to drain, the replacement is solid.

My view is that the remote reservoir is far better, not so much because of capacity, but because it is easier to check with less chance of dirt entering the system.

The Remote Reservoir was a requirement for France, Belgium, Luxembourg and Holland from car 1192884 which would be early 1967.
Rather oddly, the different Master Cylinder, which would need to include a non vented Cap is only listed as 'change point not available'; yet they are clearly interdependent ...
There's no mention of it in the LCV Parts though, perhaps they'd stopped exporting to France/Benelux by then, or the law change didn't apply to commercials....
.

Remote.JPG (65.93 KiB) Viewed 6957 times

[kevin s]

There are standards which determine the volume of a reservoir based on the amount of fluid displaced from new to worn linings which is probably why some kits specify one, the reality is if you check the fluid regularly it will not be a problem. (It was 25 years ago and was part of my automotive Msc so I can't remember the details).

[Bill_qaz]

There are standards which determine the volume of a reservoir based on the amount of fluid displaced from new to worn linings which is probably why some kits specify one, the reality is if you check the fluid regularly it will not be a problem. (It was 25 years ago and was part of my automotive Msc so I can't remember the details).

Why would you never check your brake fluid from new lining/pads to worn and rely on the reservoir volume alone?
Sounds like theoretical more than reality

[geoberni]

Why would you never check your brake fluid from new lining/pads to worn and rely on the reservoir volume alone?
Sounds like theoretical more than reality

Ever since the 1980s, or perhaps even earlier, people have decreasingly taken car of their vehicles because manufacturers made them more reliable, no 'Lubrication' every X,000 miles for example.
I recently looked at the glovebox manual for my wife's Corsa, to see if it listed what the headlamp full beam bulb was; it didn't, it just rather unhelpfully told me to replace with the same as I removed....
But in my browsing I noticed that the 'servicing requirement' was listed as 20,000miles for European Countries and 10,000 for everywhere else.
So 100% longer between oil changes when in Europe....

There are a great many people now who never look at anything on their vehicle, they just put fuel in it and wait for the MOT every year to tell them what's wrong. Hence why VOSA (or whomever) always catch loads of people on their roadside checks, for basics like bald tyres.

[Bill_qaz]

I think some of it Berni is in the operator. I've spent coming upto 60 years making a living and working for pleasure on vehicles of all types. My modernish 2013 has warnings for everything but I still manually check things. On the Minor and a friends classics I look after, levels and tyre pressures are checked before every trip.
Maintenance is a regular occurrence not just annual.
But to me that's part of the fun of owning a classic car.
I also think years of experience gives you a sympathetic feel and ear for problems.
With modern vehicles having warnings for everything from tyre pressures to lane departure and self parking, we have a generation of drivers who check nothing until the dash tv screen says so

[kevin s]

To be fair its not just modern drivers, Look back at why MOT's were introduced there are descriptions of cars literally falling to pieces, there have always been people who drive them until they stop.

[svenedin]

To be fair its not just modern drivers, Look back at why MOT's were introduced there are descriptions of cars literally falling to pieces, there have always been people who drive them until they stop.

I remember a story about my father driving his Austin 7 Ruby. He was stopped by a policeman for a roadworthiness check as the car was somewhat dilapidated. The policeman asked my father to step out of the vehicle. My father had to decline the request and explain that if he did, the car would roll down the hill. The handbrake didn't work and he needed to keep his foot on the footbrake. This was before the introduction of the MoT test and of course, my father got a ticket.

Stephen

[les]

How do you check the oil level without a dip stick, you’re almost discouraged to check things. I expect some cars check the tyre wear by monitoring the diameter. Who checks the driverless cars for problems, maybe a robot mechanic.

[Bill_qaz]

Bit like sealed for life components, no lubrication or maintenance until they fail, then replacement not repair
Welcome to the throw away world

[matthorton]

Just started the change over and had to cut master cylinder bolts to remove. The genuine replacements seem a bit expensive, has anyone changed the two bolts to metric equivalents?

[les]

The main concern is to get bolts with a thin head, as original, giving adequate clearance from the torsion bar. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet !

[matthorton]

To be fair the previous owner had put them in reverse which should have helped today but they were seized solid and there was plenty of room for the remaining bolt and nut without impeding the torsion bar. The both diameter is about 9mm which is difficult to source

[les]

There may appear plenty of clearance but in practice there is movement of the torsion bar. The bolt head is thin for a reason. Although as you mention, there are still some folk who are happy to assemble the bolts the wrong way.