Hard to start - ignition timing issues?

[KevinB]

My 1098 is usually very difficult to start from cold. Yesterday, it took at least 10 to 20 attempts before the engine "caught".

What happens is I turn the key, the starter turns, the engine fires fairly quickly and this immediately throws the starter out of engagement. Why - poor ignition timing I'm wondering? So I do that again and again...

Finally after many attempts, and with luck, the engine will struggle into life with me playing with the accelerator to try to keep it running and as it begins to warm up, it runs better and better. Once warm, it will idle happily indefinately.

I would be grateful for any thoughts please...

Kevin

[myoldjalopy]

Your post is a bit contradictory. First you say the 'engine fires fairly quickly', but then 'Finally after many attempts, and with luck, the engine will struggle into life...'
It would be worth checking the ignition system - points, plugs etc. and maybe the valve clearances. I think if the timing were out, you would notice the car not performing so well on the road.....

[KevinB]

Thank you for the reply. By fires quickly, I mean a couple of cylinders do and this throws out the starter engagement. So it stops. The engine just doesn't get going. So I try again.

[myoldjalopy]

If you can identify which cylinders are not firing immediately, I would check the plugs on those two cylinders, and the valve clearances (might as well check them all while you have the rocker cover off). I am assuming that once the car gets going, it runs OK on the road, thus ruling out anything like a blown head gasket.

[Bill_qaz]

Just an idea.
Mark your distributor position as is. Retard the timing a little and try, if it makes a difference your on the right track and can time it properly with a timing light.

[KevinB]

Thanks, I shall check things and try the timing trick.

[Mervin]

"Finally after many attempts, and with luck, the engine will struggle into life with me playing with the accelerator to try to keep it running and as it begins to warm up, it runs better and better. Once warm, it will idle happily indefinately. "

Could that also indicate an issue with fuel enrichment(choke)when cold? i.e. is the jet moving down sufficiently to admit more fuel?
Does it start and run properly when warmed up?

[svenedin]

It sounds more like a choke issue than a timing issue.

If the ignition timing is much too far advanced the engine can kick back against the starter when it fires (this is what can break wrists when using the starting handle). This would be really obvious and the fact the engine performs well when warmed up goes against an ignition timing issue.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Thanks, I shall check things and try the timing trick.

Also check the choke mechanism is operating the high idle. It could be enriching mixture but at normal idle, so playing with the throttle is required, you shouldn't have to touch the throttle on starting with choke.

Screenshot_20260221-163929_Samsung Internet.jpg (39.7 KiB) Viewed 112824 times

[KevinB]

I have looked visually at the choke operation. It appears ok. The jet moves down and the fast idle seems to happen, but I may try a tweak on the screw (thanks for the picture Bill, I wasn't sure about that).

I will also try the timing trick.

[svenedin]

As the distributor rotor rotates anticlockwise, retarding the ignition is done by rotating the distributor anticlockwise. Or with a Lucas 25D, use the mico-adjusting thumbwheel. This is marked A/R (advance/retard). Count the clicks and adjust in R direction. Only a few degrees of adjustment is possible via this method.

These "hard start" problems can be caused by lots of things. If it were my car I would check some things before fiddling with the ignition timing which might be spot on anyway.

Take the spark plugs out one by one. Examine them. Check for carbon fouling, clean as necessary and set the correct gap. 25 thousandths of an inch. Too big a gap can give a weak spark as can carbon fouling.

Then check the points gap and adjust as necessary. Clean or replace pitted old points. Check the security of all of the electrical connections.

Ideally, check the spark to all 4 spark plugs which the cheap neon spark testers.

Check the fuel pump is delivering fuel readily. Check that the choke control in the cabin allows enough depression of the carburettor jet.

Get a can of easy start and squirt some in to the carb with the air filter off. Does it start immediately now? If so, it's fuel related not spark.

Stephen

[Nickol]

I am following this thread with great interest.

[myoldjalopy]

One thing not mentioned yet - check the condition of the dizzy cap, inside and out.......

[KevinB]

I have cleaned the plugs again with a brass brush - they were quite sooty after not much running in the last couple of days and checked the gaps. They were a smidge more than 25 thou. I didn't find it very easy to close the gaps though?

The points were changed by a mechanic I used last August. All looked good around the dizzy. Also, I increased the fast idle a bit.

The engine then started quite easily! But it is milder today at 12C, so that would have helped. But thank you for all the tips and suggestions.

I let the engine run for about 10 minutes and warm up. Then removed a plug and took the photo attached. It's a bit sooty again already - what do you think please?

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So is it running rich? The exhaust gas is quite smoky and smelly, but not of petrol as such.

I did NOT alter the timing, or use the easystart.

[myoldjalopy]

It will soot up if you leave the engine idling after start-up, especially if you have a bit of choke on. Best go for a brisk drive and then check the plugs when you get back home. If all is well the soot should burn off.

[Bill_qaz]

Kevin "I didn't find it very easy to close the gaps though?"

Try holding plug in your hand by the hex and tap the curved electrode against something solid, vice or side of hammer head.
Then remeasure, there are plug gap tools of various types if you do an online search.

[svenedin]

The plug is sooty but has dry carbon deposits and is not wet with oil so that looks promising. You can't judge much from a spark plug that has just come from an engine that was started and got up to temperature whilst idling. Take the car out for a decent drive and then examine the spark plugs afterwards. If they are still sooty and the exhaust is smoky then yes the mixture is too rich.

Stephen

[KevinB]

Thank you Bill, Stephen and myoldjalopy, I shall take it for a drive (when it stops raining) and report back.

Thanks all

Kevin

[Nickol]

My cold starting problem was solved, discussed in another thread, was that I had connected the coil feed wires the wrong way around. In a neg earth car, the white wire should go to the +ive terminal of the coil.

[KevinB]

My cold starting problem was solved, discussed in another thread, was that I had connected the coil feed wires the wrong way around. In a neg earth car, the white wire should go to the +ive terminal of the coil.

My car is still a pig to start, so I've just checked my coil wires and the White goes to +ve and white/black to -ve, so that should be correct.

I did get it to start just now eventually, but it was running roughly with some misfiring. But some days it idles smoothly - it just all seems rather random. I don't understand it.

All in all, I still don't trust it out on the road yet, sadly.