Connecting two flasher units.

[Mr Spigot]

Having spent the last week fitting a new wiring loom to my car (1960 2-door), a job I have put off for some months and have had endless fun connecting everything up and sorting out previous owners complications, I am now reaching the final hurdle of connecting the indicator flashers (the trafficators have been superseded, but may yet rise again) and my brain is struggling.

The loom from the indicator stalk contains (amongst a few others for horn etc) a green/brown cable, a light green cable, a green/red cable and a green/white cable. I have a separate flasher unit for each side with an L, P and X terminal plus a black earth lead.
My understanding for the way to connect the two flashers is this:

Main Feed: The green/brown wire on the stalk loom connects to the main green wire from the flasher unit (terminal 'L' on each flasher). I assume a double bullet connector to connect the green/brown to 2 greens, one to each flasher?
Indicator Signals:
Green/red: Left indicator circuit. Terminal 'X' on left flasher
Green/white: Right indicator circuit. Terminal 'X' on right flasher
Pilot Light (Green Indicator Knob): The light green wire feeds the small bulb on the end of the switch, connecting to the 'P' terminal on the flasher unit via green cable. Again, split with a double bullet connector to go to each flasher unit.

Have I got this right?

[svenedin]

In a standard, late car set-up with one flasher unit:

B (battery): connects to the battery via a green wire. This wire is live whenever the ignition is on regardless of the position of the indicator stalk.
L (lamps): connects to the indicator stalk switch and is a green/brown wire. When the indicator switch is ON (either to signal left or right) the circuit is completed with EITHER, the green/white wire for right-hand flasher lamps OR green/red wire for left-hand flasher lamps.
P (pilot): is a light (pale) green wire that is for the pilot lamp on the end of the indicator stalk.

Flasher units may also be labelled L, P, X. In this case, X is connected to the battery.

Unfortunately, I can't work out how 2 flasher units could be used.

Stephen

[geoberni]

Hi
Sorry, but I couldn't fathom out your bit

Main Feed: The green/brown wire on the stalk loom connects to the main green wire from the flasher unit (terminal 'L' on each flasher). I assume a double bullet connector to connect the green/brown to 2 greens, one to each flasher?

That sounds to me like you're joining the outputs of the Indicator Stalk together to both Flashers at the same time.

This is what you are trying to achieve, I've just moved bits around on the original Manual wiring diagram.
You'll have to work out the colours yourself as I'm on my way out shortly.
I'm not convinced that just joining the 2 Pilot Light feeds together will work.
Depending on the internal construction of the Flasher Units, joining the outputs together might cause one to feed back through the other.
Easily resolved with a couple of diodes if it happens.

Best of Luck, come back if you hit any snags
Don't forget that vehicle polarity might be a factor with the Flasher Units.

Double Flasher.jpg (40.22 KiB) Viewed 120947 times

[Mr Spigot]

Many, many thanks. That diagram was really helpful and made it clearer what I need to do. Hopefully tomorrow I will connect it all up and see what happens.

[svenedin]

Berni's diagram is very helpful and I see how this could work now.

For anybody reading this afterwards (sometimes people read forum posts years after they were written), this is NOT a standard installation.

Connect the green/brown wire that is in the bundle of wires from the indicator stalk to a plain green wire that is live when the ignition is on.

Take the green/white wire from the indicator stalk bundle and connect it to B (or X) on the flasher unit for the right-hand flashers. Connect the green/white wire that goes to the flasher lamps to L on the same flasher unit.

Do the same for the left-hand flasher but use the green/red wire from the indicator switch bundle to go to B (or X) and the green/red going to the lamps to L.

As Berni says, the P connections (light green) may not work properly and might require diodes in the leads to ensure they work properly.


Stephen


I hope Berni will not mind that I added the colours to his diagram:

Double Flasher.jpg (60.52 KiB) Viewed 120936 times

[mike1864]

I'm still confused as to why a previous owner would ever have put two flashers "downstream" of the indicator stalk, when only (the original) "upstream" one is necessary. Loads of work, non-standard wiring, now requiring diodes: all for no apparent reason. And a problem for any future fault-finding.
Doesn't his new (standard!) wiring loom enable the OP to revert it all back to normal?
Afterthought: was there a hazard light system once sat across all this? Not that this would explain two flashers, unless Left and Right were working (illegally) out of sync!

[svenedin]

I'm still confused as to why a previous owner would ever have put two flashers "downstream" of the indicator stalk, when only (the original) "upstream" one is necessary. Loads of work, non-standard wiring, now requiring diodes: all for no apparent reason. And a problem for any future fault-finding.
Doesn't his new (standard!) wiring loom enable the OP to revert it all back to normal?
Afterthought: was there a hazard light system once sat across all this? Not that this would explain two flashers, unless Left and Right were working (illegally) out of sync!

I have no idea either....


Stephen

[geoberni]

I'm still confused as to why a previous owner would ever have put two flashers "downstream" of the indicator stalk, when only (the original) "upstream" one is necessary. Loads of work, non-standard wiring, now requiring diodes: all for no apparent reason. And a problem for any future fault-finding.
Doesn't his new (standard!) wiring loom enable the OP to revert it all back to normal?
Afterthought: was there a hazard light system once sat across all this? Not that this would explain two flashers, unless Left and Right were working (illegally) out of sync!

This follows on from an earlier post by the OP.
The intention is to have Trafficators AND Indicators working from the one switch.
Only using 1 Flasher Unit will have the Trafficator waving around like a demented seagull.
viewtopic.php?t=79762

[geoberni]

Berni's diagram is very helpful and I see how this could work now.

For anybody reading this afterwards (sometimes people read forum posts years after they were written), this is NOT a standard installation.

Connect the green/brown wire that is in the bundle of wires from the indicator stalk to a plain green wire that is live when the ignition is on.

Take the green/white wire from the indicator stalk bundle and connect it to B (or X) on the flasher unit for the right-hand flashers. Connect the green/white wire that goes to the flasher lamps to L on the same flasher unit.

Do the same for the left-hand flasher but use the green/red wire from the indicator switch bundle to go to B (or X) and the green/red going to the lamps to L.

As Berni says, the P connections (light green) may not work properly and might require diodes in the leads to ensure they work properly.


Stephen

I hope Berni will not mind that I added the colours to his diagram:

No objection to you adding the colours . I was in a bit of a rush and also I recollect (perhaps erroneously ) that Stalk loom colours don't always correspond to the diagram details. Not having a Stalk system, I thought I'd not comment.

However, I will have to correct your placement of Diodes (should they prove necessary) as your lower one doesn't prevent interaction by the upper Flasher 43a, feeding into the output of 43b. See below for the required change.

Correction.JPG (58.98 KiB) Viewed 120892 times

[svenedin]

Thanks for that. Yes I noticed the diode position error but I couldn’t edit the diagram to move the diode! As it was I’d had to make the diode symbol up from an arrow and a line which was far too time consuming!

Stephen

[Mr Spigot]

Success!! After a bit of fiddling and working my way round with a multimeter, both sides are now winking merrily. I have connected the 'P' terminals one at a time to test they work (they do - bright green flashing on the stalk bulb), but am awaiting the arrival of some diodes to connect them up properly, to avoid any problems. Thanks for all your great help.
Now to pluck up courage to fit the hazard switch....

[Mr Spigot]

I'm still confused as to why a previous owner would ever have put two flashers "downstream" of the indicator stalk, when only (the original) "upstream" one is necessary. Loads of work, non-standard wiring, now requiring diodes: all for no apparent reason. And a problem for any future fault-finding.
Doesn't his new (standard!) wiring loom enable the OP to revert it all back to normal?
Afterthought: was there a hazard light system once sat across all this? Not that this would explain two flashers, unless Left and Right were working (illegally) out of sync!

The two flashers came with the new loom from Autosparks, which is wired accordingly. I'm no expert and just trying to connect it all up to get it to work.

[Bill_qaz]

I'm still confused as to why a previous owner would ever have put two flashers "downstream" of the indicator stalk, when only (the original) "upstream" one is necessary. Loads of work, non-standard wiring, now requiring diodes: all for no apparent reason. And a problem for any future fault-finding.
Doesn't his new (standard!) wiring loom enable the OP to revert it all back to normal?
Afterthought: was there a hazard light system once sat across all this? Not that this would explain two flashers, unless Left and Right were working (illegally) out of sync!

The two flashers came with the new loom from Autosparks, which is wired accordingly. I'm no expert and just trying to connect it all up to get it to work.

Maybe worth asking the supplier what the reason is for running separate left and right flasher units. They may have a logical explanation to help you understand

[svenedin]

I'm still confused as to why a previous owner would ever have put two flashers "downstream" of the indicator stalk, when only (the original) "upstream" one is necessary. Loads of work, non-standard wiring, now requiring diodes: all for no apparent reason. And a problem for any future fault-finding.
Doesn't his new (standard!) wiring loom enable the OP to revert it all back to normal?
Afterthought: was there a hazard light system once sat across all this? Not that this would explain two flashers, unless Left and Right were working (illegally) out of sync!

The two flashers came with the new loom from Autosparks, which is wired accordingly. I'm no expert and just trying to connect it all up to get it to work.

Maybe worth asking the supplier what the reason is for running separate left and right flasher units. They may have a logical explanation to help you understand

Berni has explained that the OP asked about this in a previous thread. He wants to have flashing indicators AND have functioning trafficators at the same time. This is possible but requires these wiring modifications and two flasher units one for each side. The trafficators would take their power feed before the flasher units on each side so they would not swing wildly up and down!

Stephen

[svenedin]

Success!! After a bit of fiddling and working my way round with a multimeter, both sides are now winking merrily. I have connected the 'P' terminals one at a time to test they work (they do - bright green flashing on the stalk bulb), but am awaiting the arrival of some diodes to connect them up properly, to avoid any problems. Thanks for all your great help.
Now to pluck up courage to fit the hazard switch....

Good to hear but I guessed that a hazard switch would be the next thing!

What kind of hazard switch are you going to fit? If you used a Lucas SFB300 type hazard switch I think that would work.

Stephen

[Mr Spigot]

What kind of hazard switch are you going to fit? If you used a Lucas SFB300 type hazard switch I think that would work.

It is a Lucas SFB300 type switch, obtained from ESM. I noted your modification (cut the bracket in half!) to make it fit around the flange under the dashboard. My car has that too so there is only about 60mm to play with at the front. Presumably you also cut the cover accordingly?

[svenedin]

What kind of hazard switch are you going to fit? If you used a Lucas SFB300 type hazard switch I think that would work.

It is a Lucas SFB300 type switch, obtained from ESM. I noted your modification (cut the bracket in half!) to make it fit around the flange under the dashboard. My car has that too so there is only about 60mm to play with at the front. Presumably you also cut the cover accordingly?

Yes just cut the plastic cover down to fit the part that holds the switch which will be mounted in front of the flange under the dashboard. The other part of the bracket which will hold the hazard flasher unit can be mounted on the far side of the under dashboard flange subject to the length of the wires. I’d suggest that this part is mounted at 90 degrees to the switch part to allow the cable bundle a tidy straight run. That part doesn’t need a cover as you won’t see it.

Although your flasher wiring will be very different to standard, there is no reason the SFB300 won't work and if you understand the principles behind its operation you can work out how to install it.

The SFB300 has 6 wires that need to be connected up. I am not stating the colours of the wires as you have a modern unit and they don't follow the old colour code except for earth (black) I think:

1) Earth. Easy. Any convenient earth connection. I seem to recall there is already an earth wire with a female bullet connector behind the dashboard. You can use that by replacing the 2-way female bullet connector to a 4-way.

2) Permanent live. This provides power to the hazards even if the ignition is turned off. Connects to a purple wire. Intercept the purple wire that provides power to the interior light that has a connection behind the dashboard.

3 and 4) 2 wires the same colour (the only two wires the same colour). This enables the hazard switch to cut the power (interrupt) to the ordinary indicators when the hazard switch is on. You can't have both the hazard flasher unit AND the ordinary indicator flasher unit trying to flash the lamps at the same time. In your specific case (but only in your case) one of these wires will connect to green brown going to the indicator stalk and the other will connect to green (not light green) going to the indicator stalk.

5 and 6) Two wires, different colours that go to the indicator lamps on the car. Normally green/white and green/red. These must be connected AFTER your indicator flasher units.

Hope that helps. I don't have Berni's ability at making circuit diagrams on my computer.

Stephen

[Mr Spigot]

Many thanks again. That is really helpful. I am going to further complicate matters by adding an on/off switch for the trafficators, but I have been formulating plans for a bracket to resolve both switch positions. More info in the next few weeks (holiday intervening!) once I get it all together!

[svenedin]

Many thanks again. That is really helpful. I am going to further complicate matters by adding an on/off switch for the trafficators, but I have been formulating plans for a bracket to resolve both switch positions. More info in the next few weeks (holiday intervening!) once I get it all together!

Good luck. I added more to my post but the forum started playing up so badly that I couldn't post it.

Stephen

[geoberni]

Many thanks again. That is really helpful. I am going to further complicate matters by adding an on/off switch for the trafficators, but I have been formulating plans for a bracket to resolve both switch positions. More info in the next few weeks (holiday intervening!) once I get it all together!

See attached:
Hazard Sw connection and a Trafficator Enable/Disable using DPST Sw.

Note - Where Lines cross on the diagram, they do not connect to each other unless there is an obvious DOT or BLOB to indicate a connection point.

Hazard setup.jpg (98.08 KiB) Viewed 120596 times