Alignment dots duplex timing chain

[WoodyMM]

Hello all,
I'm the owner of a 1970 traveller and currently replacing the single timing chain for a duplex kit but when installing the duplex gears I noticed that the alignment dots are not on the same spots as the simplex gears as you can see on the attached pictures.
Can anyone tell me if this is normal can I use the new alignment position without destroying the engine
Thanks for your help!
Marco

[Bill_qaz]

If the camshaft keyway is in exactly the same position on both pictures, I would suggest the cam gear is incorrectly marked.
Don't turn it to align the dots talk to the supplier.

[geoberni]

I agree with Bill, the Sprokets should be like for like in that regard.
Contact the Seller.

For example, if you look at the ESM Double Sprocket, the mark is as per your original, between the 5 and 6 o'clock position, if the keyway is as 12.
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/engin ... ft-p830207

Other sites also show the same relationship between keyway and marking.

[WoodyMM]

Thanks for your quick replies!
I got the attached kit at Moss and it seems the camshaft gear is marked wrong... I will contact them to see what happened.

[svenedin]

Thanks for your quick replies!
I got the attached kit at Moss and it seems the camshaft gear is marked wrong... I will contact them to see what happened.

Well done for spotting this!

Stephen

[philthehill]

The alignment dots on the camshaft sprocket supplied to WoodyMM are wrong. Here is a link to the same camshaft sprocket/same part number and the alignment dots are in the same orientation as the original simplex with rubber rings tensioner set up.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/197813031367 ... R_6Hj6qZZw

[WoodyMM]

I talked to the seller and they couldn't explain why the wrong camshaft gear was in the correct box but they send me a new one.
I guess I just escaped a complete disaster!

[Bill_qaz]

You averted an engine disaster, good you spotted the error.
Never assume a new part is the right part. It always pays to compare original with replacement before committing to fit

[svenedin]

BZ!

Stephen

[philthehill]

Just to put things into perspective - a standard ex factory 1098cc 'A' Series engine turning over with the absolute wrong cam timing would not have been a disaster as there is no way that the valves would have come into contact with the pistons or top of the block. That is because the valves are sunk so far into the head that the head of the valve even on full lift with the pistons at TDC goes nowhere piston or block at any part of the combustion cycle.
At most the engine would fail to run.

[Chief]

Does that mean the A-series stock engines are all indifference engines then? (funny thing is, I was wondering about this the other day).

[Bill_qaz]

Just to put things into perspective - a standard ex factory 1098cc 'A' Series engine turning over with the absolute wrong cam timing would not have been a disaster as there is no way that the valves would have come into contact with the pistons or top of the block. That is because the valves are sunk so far into the head that the head of the valve even on full lift with the pistons at TDC goes nowhere piston or block at any part of the combustion cycle.
At most the engine would fail to run.

Good to know Phil they are non interference engine. But still would of been a pain in the butt for the OP, trying to work out why it wouldn't start and having to pull it apart again.
Having to rectify bad parts bought in good faith is very frustrating.

[svenedin]

Thanks Phill, another very useful thing that I've learned. If the timing chain breaks no serious damage. That's good to know.

Stephen

[WoodyMM]

Hello all,

I finally received the correct parts and reassembled the engine. Then I set the static timing at 3° before TDC with the test lamp and had to turn the distributor quite a bit anti clockwise to get the correct position, could this be ok?
When I started the engine, it started but is not running ok at all. The idle speed is more or less ok but when I accelerate it is stuttering and impossible to drive....
Any ideas what could be wrong?

Thanks, Marco

[philthehill]

Go back to basics and check the valve timing again. Do not take the timing marks on the timing gears as on face value to be correct.
Once you have the valve timing correct then set the ignition timing.
Once you have the valve and ignition timing correct check the carb and reset if necessary.
Once all the settings are correct the engine should start and run like a sewing machine.
Good luck
Phil

[WoodyMM]

Thanks for the quick reply Phil.
Can you tell me how to check the valve timing, I couldn't find it in the guide.
I installed the gears and had the marks aligned as you can see in the picture I attached.
Does it mean I have to take the engine apart again...
Marco

20260322_154149_resized.jpg (516.71 KiB) Viewed 48218 times

[Bill_qaz]

I would also question if the valve timing was correct why did you have to move the distributor as its driven off the cam.
These engine are valve timed(marks in line) with number 4 on firing stroke, so did you turn the crankshaft one full revolution to put number 1 on firing stroke before checking distributor timing?

[philthehill]

You do not have to take the engine apart again.
To go right back to check camshaft timing basics - you do need at least one (two is better) dial gauge and a timing disc. The dial gauge to measure true TDC and the max lift at the specified degrees and a timing disc to correctly measure the degrees for opening/closing the valves before and after TDC.
If the timing marks are found to be correct and aligned (note the valve timing is always correct if the correct marks are aligned - turning the camshaft gear one full turn and back to mark alignment will have no effect on the valve timing) then the problem I suspect lies with the positioning of the distributer drive.
Before you seriously strip anything compare the offset of the slot in the top of the distributer drive with the illustration in the wksp manual.
I suspect that you have the distributer drive at least on tooth out of alignment - this is very easy to do as you do have to take account of the turning action of the shaft when meshing with the worm gear on the camshaft. The final offset position as per the manual illustration is what you need to attain.
If you fit and time the distributer drive as per the manual then all should be OK.

[Bill_qaz]

Phil I wonder why the op would of removed the distributor drive when changing the timing chain?

[WoodyMM]

Thanks again for all the tips, it sounds complex to check the camshaft timing and at the moment I don't have a dial gauge and timing disc but if necessary I will go for it.
The engine was running ok before I took it apart, the reason was a leaking timing cover seal and when I took the cover off I noticed the timing chain was very slack so one thing led to another. When I installed the gears and aligned the marks the rotor fires nbr 4 and when I check the timing I moved the crankshaft to fire nbr 1.
I also questioned why I had to turn the distributor. Unfortunately I didn't try the engine before to move the distributor, maybe it was ok at the original position and could it have been installed wrong by the previous owner as I did't remove the distributor.