They walk amongst us

[Bill_qaz]

Our second terrible tale concerns a seatbelt that could have detached from its mountings at any moment.

Luke sent us this photo of a Morris Minor with a dangerously unsafe seatbelt that he had in for testing.

The rear seatbelt had been screwed onto the wooden frame of the car, which was pretty worn and decayed.

The problem was that there was only 1 screw holding the seatbelt in place! The 3 other screw sockets were empty.

If the car was involved in a crash, there’s a good chance that the single screw holding the seatbelt in place would fail. To make matters worse, the seatbelt was securing a child seat. If the tester hadn’t spotted this, it could’ve given way in a crash, possibly resulting in the injury or death of a small child.

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Source:Halloween horror stories – Matters of Testing https://share.google/7Ilx1Cj0vrzKh2sfC

[unclealec]

Horrendous.
One of the reasons I try to dissuade people from fitting seat belts to vehicles that don't have factory anchorage points.

I remember the ten-year test coming in, and some of the death traps that were taken off the road. I remember the howls of protest. None of them came from me.

[bobtail4x4]

people never fail to amaze me

[geoberni]

people never fail to amaze me

Having been a H&S Practitioner, I have a pretty high threshold, which was often breached .

[Bill_qaz]

people never fail to amaze me

Having been a H&S Practitioner, I have a pretty high threshold, which was often breached .

The traditional Darwin Awards, honoring those who improve the human gene pool by removing themselves through fatal errors,

[mrs.smith2012]

Horrendous.
One of the reasons I try to dissuade people from fitting seat belts to vehicles that don't have factory anchorage points.

I remember the ten-year test coming in, and some of the death traps that were taken off the road. I remember the howls of protest. None of them came from me.

I’ve toyed with the idea of fitting seatbelts in the back of my moggy… but I very rarely have passengers in the back, it would just be for the very odd occasion if someone did need to jump in… but would they be safe? Reading your comment has made me question whether they would be!

[Bill_qaz]

Yes they are safe if fitted correctly, with adequate fittings, by a competent person.

[mike1864]

Yes they are safe if fitted correctly, with adequate fittings, by a competent person.

Yes. Big fat high tensile bolts through substantial steel sections; and no wood or trim involved.

[Bill_qaz]

Duplicate removed

[Bill_qaz]

Fitting plates not floor pan and correct bolts . if no factory points fitted

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[Bill_qaz]

I also fitted drop brackets as original upper mount is too high and put belt across the neck. You can see correct size and grade on bolt head. 7/16 dia 8.8 grade.

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[ManyMinors]

The main difference of course is that the dangerous mounting pictured, is in the rear of a Traveller and the belt is mounted to the seat itself ( ).
In a Minor saloon you have a steel shelf which is part of the car body and although not perfect by modern standards, is generally regarded as a perfectly
adequate mounting for rear seat belts in these cars.
The Minor was never fitted with mountings for rear belts from the factory. Front mountings were added in about 1961.

[Bill_qaz]

The main difference of course is that the dangerous mounting pictured, is in the rear of a Traveller and the belt is mounted to the seat itself ( ).
In a Minor saloon you have a steel shelf which is part of the car body and although not perfect by modern standards, is generally regarded as a perfectly
adequate mounting for rear seat belts in these cars.
The Minor was never fitted with mountings for rear belts from the factory. Front mountings were added in about 1961.

If you look at the mot picture again its not mounted to the seat, its attached to the wooden traveller frame.(one remaining screw)
Even if you bolt through the saloon parcel shelf, personally I would still use the load spreading plates. They are FIA approved.

Even my 62 had mounting in front but no floor points built in for the buckle belt. Spreader plates are used on floor or tunnel. Shown in manual.

[ManyMinors]

Oh yes. It seems the seatbelt is bolted to a steel bracket which is screwed to the (probably rotted!) timber frame. Amazing.

On my first Traveller, the front belts were bolted through the timber waistrails with long bolts and were very secure. It was a 1950s car and had no mountings in the body. They would have been much better than nothing!
Yes, spreader plates should certainly be used when mounting belts to ordinary steel bodywork.

[philthehill]

Bill
Is the parcel shelf FIA approved?
Phil

[ManyMinors]

The parcel shelf won't be up to modern standards of course. The whole car isn't up to modern standards - and never will be. All our classic cars have an element of compromise don't they and we have to accept that. We can do a certain amount to them but, before long, you get away from the whole concept and pleasure of having a simple old car I think

[svenedin]

The parcel shelf won't be up to modern standards of course. The whole car isn't up to modern standards - and never will be. All our classic cars have an element of compromise don't they and we have to accept that. We can do a certain amount to them but, before long, you get away from the whole concept and pleasure of having a simple old car I think

Exactly. They're nowhere near up to modern safety standards in so many ways but it would tragic for a life to be lost in a seemingly fairly trivial accident because the seatbelt wasn't attached properly.

Stephen

[Bill_qaz]

Bill
Is the parcel shelf FIA approved?
Phil

I know your joking Phil but the plate with welded nuts are far less likely to pull through any sheet metal than a nut on its own if somebody decides to retrofit belts it may help.
We dont all have roll cages
Its very much a personal decision but I feel safer with belts. I particularly would not want a rear seat passenger hitting the back of the tilting front seat passenger unrestrained in even a low speed collision.
On an advanced driving course, with my former employer, we were advised to leave the rear seatbelts fastened when no passengers.
This is because equipment has been known to push down folding rear seat (despite catches) in a crash and injure front seat passengers or driver.

[geoberni]

The parcel shelf won't be up to modern standards of course. The whole car isn't up to modern standards - and never will be. All our classic cars have an element of compromise don't they and we have to accept that. We can do a certain amount to them but, before long, you get away from the whole concept and pleasure of having a simple old car I think

There's been news coverage today about a survey on Drivers behaviour.
See here: https://fleetworld.co.uk/almost-five-mi ... the-wheel/

On BBC Breakfast, they covered it and the Psychologist that was on said that part of the problem is that modern cars lull drivers into a comfort zone. There is no 'feel' to the driving; they are just in their protective comfortable box, isolated from all the outside sensory input.
They can barely feel the road underneath, unless there's a Pothole


Basil has never been fitted with Seat Belts, and I've left him that way. A car designed with seat belts includes a seat design to match.
Seat belts in a SII would hold you down on a somewhat basic metal frame with minimal padding, just to position the driver to get speared on the non-collapsing steering column and non-safety banjo steering wheel.
I doubt there is more than a couple of inches between my fingers on the wheel and the flat windscreen; I know I hit my fingers on the windscreen if I try to raise them up to acknowledge another driver/vehicle....

[svenedin]

The parcel shelf won't be up to modern standards of course. The whole car isn't up to modern standards - and never will be. All our classic cars have an element of compromise don't they and we have to accept that. We can do a certain amount to them but, before long, you get away from the whole concept and pleasure of having a simple old car I think

There's been news coverage today about a survey on Drivers behaviour.
See here: https://fleetworld.co.uk/almost-five-mi ... the-wheel/

On BBC Breakfast, they covered it and the Psychologist that was on said that part of the problem is that modern cars lull drivers into a comfort zone. There is no 'feel' to the driving; they are just in their protective comfortable box, isolated from all the outside sensory input.
They can barely feel the road underneath, unless there's a Pothole


Basil has never been fitted with Seat Belts, and I've left him that way. A car designed with seat belts includes a seat design to match.
Seat belts in a SII would hold you down on a somewhat basic metal frame with minimal padding, just to position the driver to get speared on the non-collapsing steering column and non-safety banjo steering wheel.
I doubt there is more than a couple of inches between my fingers on the wheel and the flat windscreen; I know I hit my fingers on the windscreen if I try to raise them up to acknowledge another driver/vehicle....

My 1969 Minor did have front seat belts from the factory. They were the non-inertia type with buckles similar to those for passengers on commercial aircraft. When they were tight enough to be of any use in an accident they severely restricted movement. The webbing frayed eventually so I replaced them with inertia reel type. I quite miss the old seatbelts but I think I would find them rather uncomfortable all these years later with some middle aged spread . Of course although my car has the "safety" steering wheel it still has the impaler steering column and although Series V seats are different to Series II, the back of my driver's seat collapsed on me a few weeks ago when the car was stationary!

Stephen