1st Gear Struggles

[mrs.smith2012]

Hey all,
I’ve had a couple of lessons in Nell (for those of you who don’t know I’ve been driving a modern automatic for the past 20 years so switching to a classic manual is quite a change!)

Overall I’m getting on okay, once I’m rolling I find it quite easy to change up and down gears etc.. but really struggling with clutch control in first gear. Nell’s clutch is very high and I find it difficult to move off smoothly without either stalling or bunny hopping

I live in a very busy town with lots of roundabouts and busy junctions so being able to pull off quickly and smoothly is quite crucial and it’s making me a bit nervous. I find myself dreading having to stop

Aside from practice I wondered if anyone has any tips for mastering that clutch control! My instructor has been great, but admitted it’s been some years since he drove a Morris Minor and suggested I chat to current owners to get some more tips.

Nell has a 1275 engine and her gearbox is out of a Morris van, I don’t know if that makes any difference?

Any advice welcomed!

[svenedin]

As you know, there is no synchromesh on 1st gear so you cannot change down into 1st when the car is moving (unless you double-de clutch but let's ignore that for now). I was taught to change down to 2nd as I approached a roundabout and to not quite stop so that I could pull out in 2nd if possible. If you have to come to a complete stop you can then change down to 1st or as many owners do, pull off from stationary in 2nd.

I think it's just a question of practice. See if you can get somebody to sit with you and then just do pulling off from stationary over and over again in a quiet road. Stalling and Kangarooing are all part of the learning experience!

Stephen

[mrs.smith2012]

As you know, there is no synchromesh on 1st gear so you cannot change down into 1st when the car is moving (unless you double-de clutch but let's ignore that for now). I was taught to change down to 2nd as I approached a roundabout and to not quite stop so that I could pull out in 2nd if possible. If you have to come to a complete stop you can then change down to 1st or as many owners do, pull off from stationary in 2nd.

I think it's just a question of practice. See if you can get somebody to sit with you and then just do pulling off from stationary over and over again in a quiet road. Stalling and Kangarooing are all part of the learning experience!

Stephen

Thank you! I’m glad it’s not just me. I just took my husband for a drive around the block and I don’t know if it was because I was explaining to him what I was doing I actually managed to pull off with no issues…. So perhaps it’s a practice thing… and not feeling under pressure.
I have noticed that when I don’t push my choke right in she seems to pull off much smoother without me having to over rev… is this ok to do this?
When choke is fully in I have to really give her a lot of gas to get her to move off in first gear

[svenedin]

Don't worry. It's definitely not just you. I learnt to drive on my Morris, the same one I have now 37 years later. It takes time and practice, lot's of it. Sometimes you will be doing very well and then all of a sudden, stall or kangaroo and think "I have learnt nothing!" but it's important to realise this is normal and you ARE making progress.

The choke does 2 things; it makes the fuel mixture richer for cold starting and it raises the idling speed. The first 1/4" or so of choke knob travel only increases the idle speed, it doesn't make the mixture richer. Perhaps the idle speed is set a bit low which is why you are tending to stall without increasing the idle with the choke.

Stephen

[mobylette]

The first part of the choke action just increases idle speed, so perhaps yours is a little low, it is very easily adjusted, or maybe the engine isn't fully up to temperature. Keep practising

[mrs.smith2012]

Thank you! I did really well on Sat in my lesson, but today she was like a jumping bean lol.

Thanks for explaining a bit about the choke, that helps me understand things a bit.

I’ll keep going!

[myoldjalopy]

It may be that you are pushing in the choke knob too soon. You may find you need full choke to start, then half choke to pull away, but not pushing the knob back in fully until the engine is warmed up - this might take a quarter of a mile or more...you can tell when the engine has warmed up by turning the heater on - when the thermostat opens you will start to get warm/hot air out of the heater. Its just a matter of practice. But don't leave the choke on for miles on end as that will be bad for the engine.

[panky]

Also if you have head lights on, heater blower, wipers etc running the the idle revs can drop off slightly as the dynamo/alternator loads up and puts a little extra strain on the engine.

[KeithL]

It may be that you are pushing in the choke knob too soon. You may find you need full choke to start, then half choke to pull away, but not pushing the knob back in fully until the engine is warmed up - this might take a quarter of a mile or more...you can tell when the engine has warmed up by turning the heater on - when the thermostat opens you will start to get warm/hot air out of the heater. Its just a matter of practice. But don't leave the choke on for miles on end as that will be bad for the engine.

Ours behaves exactly as you have described above.

[geoberni]

My Basil has a 1098 but with the long SII gearstick on a 948 gearbox....
I pull away in 2nd if on the flat as 1st just isn't worth it to change up within about 2-3 car lengths.

[mrs.smith2012]

Aah it was raining today so had wipers and lights on. Could explain why she was harder to pull away in!
I did experiment with pulling away in 2nd as I know many people say moggys can do it, but Nell wasn’t having it
She doesn’t like first though, you have to change up the second you pull away or she starts bouncing
I will try experimenting a little more with the choke and perhaps letting her have a longer warm up on the drive before I pull off

[myoldjalopy]

No, don't leave it on the drive to warm up! Just use full choke to get started, then half choke, drive off and choke back in fully when warmed up - like I described earlier. Its not good to leave the car idling on choke......

[Myrtles Man]

An effective way to master clutch control is to have the engine fully warmed up and running at tickover speed (or in the case of the Moggy, increased tickover speed as outlined above) and with your right foot well away from the accelerator pedal, depress the clutch pedal, select first gear then carefully, very carefully, gradually ease the clutch pedal up without stalling the engine, allowing the car to creep forward, still at tickover speed. This excercise is best carried out in am empty car park or on your own drive if you have one and will give you great feel for the clutch biting point and clutch-control in general.

[mrs.smith2012]

No, don't leave it on the drive to warm up! Just use full choke to get started, then half choke, drive off and choke back in fully when warmed up - like I described earlier. Its not good to leave the car idling on choke......

Aah okay thank you for clarifying that! So half choke pretty much as soon as she’s started? Sorry for the questions… last time I used a choke was on my 95 fiesta and that was quite a different think altogether

[mrs.smith2012]

An effective way to master clutch control is to have the engine fully warmed up and running at tickover speed (or in the case of the Moggy, increased tickover speed as outlined above) and with your right foot well away from the accelerator pedal, depress the clutch pedal, select first gear then carefully, very carefully, gradually ease the clutch pedal up without stalling the engine, allowing the car to creep forward, still at tickover speed. This excercise is best carried out in am empty car park or on your own drive if you have one and will give you great feel for the clutch biting point and clutch-control in general.

Oh thank you, I’ll have to find somewhere quiet and try this. It always takes me by surprise just how high the clutch is

[myoldjalopy]

No, don't leave it on the drive to warm up! Just use full choke to get started, then half choke, drive off and choke back in fully when warmed up - like I described earlier. Its not good to leave the car idling on choke......

Aah okay thank you for clarifying that! So half choke pretty much as soon as she’s started? Sorry for the questions… last time I used a choke was on my 95 fiesta and that was quite a different think altogether

Yes, pretty much, but you may have to experiment a little, depending on how the mixture is set up, how cold it is, how "willing" the engine is, which may depend on when it was last serviced etc. etc. I generally use full choke to start, drive out the garage and then push the choke in half way before I go close the garage door. Then I immediately get back in and drive off. After about a quarter of a mile or so I can push the choke back in fully. As I said earlier, you can tell when the engine is warmed up enough to completely push the choke back in by the fact that hot/warm air will come out the heater if you switch it on. Remember, the point of the choke is to provide a richer fuel mixture when cold. When warm, the engine does not need a rich mixture, in fact it is bad practice to drive long ways with the choke out as the extra fuel will wash oil (i.e. lubrication) from the cylinder bores.

[Bill_qaz]

How much free play is in your clutch? If you try with you hand, rather than foot, leaning in engine off, how far does the pedal move before you feel resistance? Should be 35-38mm 1.3/8 " to 1.1/2 " When you let go, does the clutch pedal spring fully up, broken or missing return spring is not a rarity and cheap simple to replace. The free play can effect where you feel the bite point in the total travel of the pedal.
Don't be afraid to use a little clutch slip on take off, until you get more use to it. But don't drive with foot on clutch pedal as I'm sure you already been advised.
Keep practicing you will get there.

[simmitc]

I was going to suggest checking the free play but as it's a 1275 engine with a van gearbox, I'm not sure what the free play should be - it's different for the standard 948 and 1098 engines.

Has the gearbox got a ribbed case or a smooth case? Is the clutch a mechanical linkage or been changed to hydraulic?

It really does look like you have a great car there, but if it's had a lot of little tweaks, then the advice might change from standard.

[mrs.smith2012]

Okay, I’m taking her out in the morning, so I’ll see how she goes. I’ll have a look at the clutch, both my instructor and more classic experienced friend have driven her and found the clutch okay, so it’s likely just me needing to practice…
Definitely worth checking though thank you!

I believe the gearbox has a ribbed case from what I recall. Not sure about the rest, would have to enquire! I’m meeting with my friend tomorrow so I can perhaps get him to take a look… although I do think it may just be me!

[mrs.smith2012]

I definitely drive better when not under pressure too! Which implies it probably is just me!