BMHT searches

[1000wannabe]

Hi,

I'm just wondering if anyone here has had success in getting a vehicle search done when you don't have the exact information that BMHT asks for to do a certificate?

Chris Stevens on here has been very helpful in trying to pin down my lcv's identity. He has come up with a known vehicle that would be close to the manufacture date of what my car is likely to be.
When I first approached BMHT, they weren't willing or able to help, primarily because the car is an export to Australia and I don't have the UK chassis number or original engine number.

I believe the information we have now gathered should be enough to provide a good starting point.
All the electrical components I have are dated the same and I now have vehicle details of an lcv built within 3 months of the date suspected for mine and within 55 export body numbers.

A suggestion was made to ask my Mm car club here to make a request on my behalf, but I can't see what difference it would make other than to confuse communication channels more.

Ordinarily I wouldn't bother this much as its easy to just 'make' up an ID to satisfy the roads authorities, but it's such an early example that has survived, it seems a shame to let its identity disappear into the ether...

Any suggestions?
Cheers,
Chris

[philipkearney]

Hi Chris

I have had a few heritage certificates in the past from BMIHT and also looked through the archives myself to get vehicle details. All of the Morris Minors details are kept in bound ledgers, organised chronologically by chassis number. Details for each vehicle include chassis number, engine, gearbox and axle number, key number, colour and destination dealer (or Nuffield Exports if it was going overseas). Not all of the details are available for each car but usually are there.

If you have a narrow range of potential chassis numbers, you could sit and look through the appropriate ledgers and see if you can identify the vehicle from engine number, colour, destination etc. I don't think that BMIHT would do that for you due to limited resources but anyone can visit the museum and use the archives. So, if a trip to the UK doesn't suit you, you'd need to find either a freelance researcher who would do that for you or a friendly Minor owner in this country who would visit and check for you. More information on visiting the archives can be found here https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/ar ... l-material

It may be worth contacting BMIHT and asking if they could do a manual search for you but I'd think it unlikely.

Philip

[1000wannabe]

Hi Philip,

Thanks for the reply.
I had already contacted BHMT and they are not interested in helping. I tried twice, once via a certificate request (as it seemed the logical approach to initiate a search) and the second time with a lot more details that would significantly reduce the search to a few pages of the ledgers.
The first occasion, as soon as they saw it was an Australian vehicle, the walls went up.

The second attempt, via a direct email, detailed how we have since limited the search criteria down to a known vehicle with all details as a start point and an expected end point some 300 chassis numbers later. I had pointed out that all identifying marks on such an early car are actually Cowley created, not Australian, so the fact it was exported isn't really relevant to the search (other than it provides another identifier).

I was basically told they won't look without my cars numbers - pointless as I don't have them and that's why we need a search of the archives in the first place.

I understand that these requests could be a needle in a haystack scenario, but to not even contemplate them when there is a good chance of success, particularly for those of us outside the UK is frustrating.

Obviously a trip to the UK from the other side of the world to do this myself is out of the question.
I don't need a certificate to effectively confirm what I would otherwise already have (and you need to supply to request one in the first place).
Personally, I see the real value in these archives is that is helps to save vehicles that, for whatever reason, have lost their identity. Especially early, rarer examples like mine.

Chris, who has helped me a lot, has offered to have a look when he goes there next year. I just feel bad as he has already done quite a bit to help.
I would urge anyone who hasn't already provided him with details of their car, especially if it is something rarer or significant, to do so. It is only because someone else has done, that it has helped narrow the search for mine, an otherwise impossible task.

[Bill_qaz]

In fairness to BHMT they have only a few staff running the archive department.They are very helpful, I know how time consuming it is as I knew the approximate year but only the body number. It took me half a day to manually search the multiple hand written ledgers, one at a time, until I found its vin number.
The UK registration authority DVLA on the other hand have been no help.
Vehicle before computer records, current vin and registration match their records back to when computer records start and many other excuses. The final straw was the off the record comment that if I try to correct the vin, despite all the proof, the vehicle was likely to loose it age related registration and be put on a Q plate
Their advice was all records currently match the car so leave well alone.
I know build date but they don't want to know.
I hope the Australian authorities are more helpful to you.

As somebody suggested you can hire an archivist by the hour.
I did this for the local authority where my car was registered, according to BHMT. But it's very frustrating to pay the bill and be told they didn’t find what you were looking for. You are left with the nagging doubt, did they miss something?

[1000wannabe]

Hi Bill,
The Australian authorities are even less help and the situation is compounded by the fact each State has its own different authority and they are barely interconnected. They also have their own rules, licences and registration information.
Vehicles here are not tied to their original registration number for life. If your registration expires and exceeds the grace period, it's pay all the new registration fees and you have to take a new plate. I had a 1966 Austin 1800, it's entire life history and original plates. I missed the renewal by two days by mistake and that was it. No leeway.. tough bickies.

I'm hopeful someone generous over there may consider helping and doing a search for me. Chris may be able to when he visits next year.
He has already managed to create some reasonably accurate search fields from known data.
Ordinarily I wouldn't care, I could just manufacture a reasonable set of numbers to satisfy the authorities as they have no way to disprove anything if what they see matches the paperwork. BUT.. I only saved this car from being scrapped or heavily chopped/modified on a whim as I'd purchased a later car the day before. Then we discovered just how early it is. If it's at all possible to preserve its history, I'd like to.

I understand that BMHT have limited resources, but there wasn't even a consideration of perhaps it being a longer term investigation, when time permits kind of scenario or even an additional fee, just a no. I've heard about the private research, but that fee could very quickly get out of hand. As much as I'd like to not lose the history of an early LCV, I can't justify hundreds of dollars on that when it should go towards rust repairs etc..