Another mystery body ID number...

[1000wannabe]

Hi Guys,

My recent trip to buy a Minor LCV ended up with me buying two...

The second purchase is what I believe to be quite an early example.
It's an early split screen car body with the MM series dashboard.
I am still trying to find the ID plate in all the boxes of bits, but I noticed, that unlike the later 1000 model lcv, the early car doesn't have the typical chassis number stamped into the firewall. It only has a single letter and three numbers (larger stamping than the later car).
There is nothing on either side of the firewall or near the shock absorbers.
It's an Australian car, so that may complicate things. The body number for the later car, which is all matching numbers is very obviously stamped on the passenger side.

From what I've read it must be from sometime mid 53 to late 54. The body has been bead blasted, so aside from some light surface rust, there is nothing to obscure it.

Can anyone help?

Thanks, Chris

[moggiethouable]

I wonder, what are the numbers/letters that are visible?
This is all I have Im afraid.

[1000wannabe]

Just an A and 3 numbers

[geoberni]

It only has a single letter and three numbers (larger stamping than the later car).

Can anyone help?

Thanks, Chris

I can tell you that my early 1955 SII saloon also has a much larger stamp used to put the number on the firewall, it's also not as neatly done as the later cars.

I can make out 5 of the 6 digits, but the final one is partly under a small blob of weld.
I think there was a probably small hole drilled near it; because it is evident that at a past restoration someone got carried away welding over any small drill hole they found, including some that were supposed to be there....

[1000wannabe]

In my case, there are definitely only three numbers. Clearly stamped along with the associated depression into the steel.
I used to own a '51 High light MM series side valve car. I'll have to dig through old photos and see what that had..
I figure that it's definitely a CKD car, I just don't know when the Australian factory started their additional stamping. The fact that there's no other stamping just seems odd. There are no repairs that could have removed it..

[Keith]

The Australian and New Zealand CKD LCVs had different numbering to UK home market. There is an article on the CKD numbering of LCVs, PM me your email address and I'll email you the article.

[1000wannabe]

Have done so. Thanks

[1000wannabe]

Unfortunately Keith, that doesn't help.
The article does cover the information I've seen on a 1960 model, it follows that ID system.
My later car, a 1958, follows the UK system with the addition of the Australian body number after the UK number, as does my late 56 series 2 sedan.
Neither of these address the number I have or the lack of the body stamping my early car has.
Unfortunately I can't see the panel clearly in the photos I have of my old 51 MM series as that followed the old UK Morris system.
So all I know for now is that it must be between 8/53 and 10/54..
Does anyone know when the wiper motors were moved over to the driver side? My MM series had it mounted up above the passenger glove box, this Ute has the series 2 position.. (but the wiper motor is sadly missing)

[geoberni]

Does anyone know when the wiper motors were moved over to the driver side? My MM series had it mounted up above the passenger glove box, this Ute has the series 2 position.. (but the wiper motor is sadly missing)

Wiper Motor was up under the dash until the change to S3 in 1956.
Look online for pdf download of AKD 3574 Mechanical Service Parts List, and AKD 3575 Body Service Parts List
Those 2 Lists cover all LCV from the start during SII to the S5. Very useful documents to have for knowing change points.

I just looked up the Wipers and the under dash details are listed as vehicle numbers 501 to 49767. That's everything Series II.

[POMMReg]

Just an A and 3 numbers

A = Sydney (Zetland)

[1000wannabe]

Does anyone know when the wiper motors were moved over to the driver side? My MM series had it mounted up above the passenger glove box, this Ute has the series 2 position.. (but the wiper motor is sadly missing)

Wiper Motor was up under the dash until the change to S3 in 1956.
Look online for pdf download of AKD 3574 Mechanical Service Parts List, and AKD 3575 Body Service Parts List
Those 2 Lists cover all LCV from the start during SII to the S5. Very useful documents to have for knowing change points.

I just looked up the Wipers and the under dash details are listed as vehicle numbers 501 to 49767. That's everything Series II.

Thanks for that, but you missed the point I was after..
In the late Series MM cars, built at the same time as the early Series 2, the MM cars, or at least my 1951 car, had the wiper under the dash as you say, but as I mentioned, it was mounted on the left side. My late Series 2 has it also mounted under the dash, but now on the right side.
I was wondering when that changed as it may help pin down the year.

[1000wannabe]

Well the plot thickens. I have contacted the LCV register for more help.

For future reference, readers should note that the 'potteries' branch document I often see people referred to, has errors in it. It is also reproduced by the MM car club of NSW.
In there it suggests the LCV's were produced in 1952. This contradicts what the LCV register have confirmed and also what is stated in Ray Newell's book.

The reproduced information in NSW is also incorrect in other areas as it suggests a different type of chassis plate was used than what is/was in use on Australian built models.
So those references, although helpful in some respects, are not entirely correct.

[geoberni]

Does anyone know when the wiper motors were moved over to the driver side? My MM series had it mounted up above the passenger glove box, this Ute has the series 2 position.. (but the wiper motor is sadly missing)

Wiper Motor was up under the dash until the change to S3 in 1956.
Look online for pdf download of AKD 3574 Mechanical Service Parts List, and AKD 3575 Body Service Parts List
Those 2 Lists cover all LCV from the start during SII to the S5. Very useful documents to have for knowing change points.

I just looked up the Wipers and the under dash details are listed as vehicle numbers 501 to 49767. That's everything Series II.

Thanks for that, but you missed the point I was after..
In the late Series MM cars, built at the same time as the early Series 2, the MM cars, or at least my 1951 car, had the wiper under the dash as you say, but as I mentioned, it was mounted on the left side. My late Series 2 has it also mounted under the dash, but now on the right side.
I was wondering when that changed as it may help pin down the year.

Sorry about that, I did wonder what you were getting at, but I didn't realise they ever had any reason to put the wiper motor on the LH Drivers side; it just made more work for them.
There's no indication in the AKD3574, but the AKD3575 does illustrate LH Glovebox liners with the motor shaping, Item 6A.

Liner.JPG (141.27 KiB) Viewed 6886 times

.
Here's the Key to the letters in Bold.
I have to wonder why GPO Postal and Engineering Vans ever needed to the modified Liner.....

There's no indication that the Liner was for any specific overseas market or for LHD vehicles, just that it's for specific vehicle numbers.
Perhaps it was a local decision by Nuffield Australia to put it on the LH Side on the MM CKDs??
.

Abbreviations.JPG (108.93 KiB) Viewed 6886 times

[jaekl]

Because everything is symmetrical. I haven't seen the early wiper system but it functioned the same as the later ones, and I can see that the whole system could be flipped. The mounting holes are present on both sides behind the fascia and remained throughout production. At this point we don't know if an owner changed it or the assembler was having a good day.

[geoberni]

Because everything is symmetrical. I haven't seen the early wiper system but it functioned the same as the later ones, and I can see that the whole system could be flipped. The mounting holes are present on both sides behind the fascia and remained throughout production. At this point we don't know if an owner changed it or the assembler was having a good day.

What?
It wasn't all symmetrical. However I'm wondering if the early MM with the Speedo in front of the driver, might have had the Wiper Motor in the passenger side? Centre Speedo SII, it's on the RH/Driver side.
Perhaps one of our MM owning brethren can confirm the liner question?

Since there is no engineering reason to relocate it depending on the driver position, given the split screen and the identical sweep on both of them, it would actually make access easier if it were always in the passenger side, but it wasn't.

[1000wannabe]

Guys, although I appreciate the input, the wiper reference has taken the thread off topic. The only reason I mentioned it is because my 51 MM series Minor had it on the left, the Series 2 cars are on the right and that change may have helped identify the age of the car.

As it happens, I have since been informed that the car is actually a UK built body, fully exported, not an Australian assembled CKD.
With more digging, hopefully it can be pinned down further.

[POMMReg]

What's the cab & body number?

Determine whether assembled at Cowley or PKD.

[Keith]

Maybe slightly off topic, but to answer the Series MM wiper motor question. My very original 49 series MM with only the one driver side windscreen wiper has the motor mounted on the drivers side, which is obvious really.

[geoberni]

Let me hazard a guess, the 3 digit number is between 501 and 2185.....
That would make it one of the initial production run between May '53 and Sep '53....

You said

It's an early split screen car body with the MM series dashboard.

Do you mean the full width wooden dash?
Very few of those survive.

[Keith]

Wow this thread is getting complicated. I think he means his dash is the one with the speedo on the drivers side as opposed to the centre speedo facelift dash.