Are my mirrors 'Non-standard'

[GaryL]

The mirrors on my Travelar are awful.
The ball joints are loose and won't hold position.

I have managed to tighten up the lower ball joints, but can't get access to the ones behind the mirror glass because they don't come apart.

At an MMOC Club meet last week, I discussed it with some other members and looked at the other 33 cars there - No one had the same mirrors as me, and the consensus was that they had been a custom fit by a previous owner.

Everyone else's mirrors had a single fixing bolt, whereas mine have screws top and bottom.
I took one off today and also removed the metal plate - There was nothing behind the plate.

Mirror.jpg (119.13 KiB) Viewed 42392 times

Mirror Plate.jpg (198.92 KiB) Viewed 42392 times

Mirror Plate - Removed.jpg (187.11 KiB) Viewed 42392 times

I have already bought some new mirrors from ESM, but I now need to work out what else I need to replace in order to fit them.

Can someone help please?

[svenedin]

No external mirrors are "standard" because they were not factory fitted. It just so happened that we were talking about mirrors at a club meet today. There were 14 cars at the meet and not one of the cars had exactly the same mirrors as another. Generally, of the older mirror types fitted by dealers there are types made by Desmo and by Tex but Wingard also made mirrors as well.

Which mirrors have you bought?

Stephen

[ManyMinors]

Stephen is not completely correct. All Travellers were factory fitted with a pair of fixed, round wing mirrors made - I think - by Raydyot. These had chrome plated stems and stainless steel heads. The vans and pick ups were fitted with similar mirrors but in a black finish. External mirrors were a legal requirement on commercial and dual purpose vehicles at the time.
The special order Post Office vans had much larger mirrors fitted, but the saloon cars and convertibles had none from the factory and the supplying dealers fitted whatever the customer wanted from the many different mirrors available as accessories. Almost always these were fitted to the wings.
Door mirrors were generally a later (1970s) idea.

[svenedin]

Stephen is not completely correct. All Travellers were factory fitted with a pair of fixed, round wing mirrors made - I think - by Raydyot. These had chrome plated stems and stainless steel heads. The vans and pick ups were fitted with similar mirrors but in a black finish. External mirrors were a legal requirement on commercial and dual purpose vehicles at the time.
The special order Post Office vans had much larger mirrors fitted, but the saloon cars and convertibles had none from the factory and the supplying dealers fitted whatever the customer wanted from the many different mirrors available as accessories. Almost always these were fitted to the wings.
Door mirrors were generally a later (1970s) idea.

Fair enough. I am a bit of a one trick pony because I have only ever had a convertible and a 4 door and both quite late (1965 and 1969).

However, none of the Minors had a door mirror as standard from the factory

Back to the OP's question. Could he please let us know what he has bought and perhaps we can assist in how to fit the mirror?

Stephen

[geoberni]

So giving a little more detail on factory fit mirrors.....

As ManyMinors said, Travellers were deemed dual purpose and given the code W in the BMC Parts Lists, for 'wood-framed'.
As a dual purpose vehicle they required mirrors as the internal one may not have a clear view out the back, the same with vans.

The Disable Persons saloons were also so equipped, though I gave up trying to work out when Flat or Convex mirrors were used.....

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But that's the extend of factor fit mirrors all them being Wing fitment.

[oliver90owner]

How many cars were fitted with door mirrors during the production run of minors - that is of any marque, not even BL?

I very much doubt any minor was fitted with door mirrors.

The current law re rear-view mirrors is that there must be two. I don’t know when that law became operational, but suspect it has been around a long time.

[les]

Maybe not door mirrors, but maybe your Minor now has wing mirrors.

[geoberni]

How many cars were fitted with door mirrors during the production run of minors - that is of any marque, not even BL?

I very much doubt any minor was fitted with door mirrors.

The current law re rear-view mirrors is that there must be two. I don’t know when that law became operational, but suspect it has been around a long time.

Door mirrors were never fitted to the Minor, they hadn't made much of an appearance on the market place until the 70s.
I think the Mini possibly had 'go-faster' Bullet door mirrors in the mid 1960s, but they might have been wing mirrors originally

Laws on Mirrors have been around a long while, up to and including The Motor Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1973 it was essentially

.....subject to the provisions of the foregoing sub-paragraphs every motor vehicle shall be equipped either internally or externally with a mirror
so constructed and fitted to the motor vehicle as to assist the driver, if he so desires, to become aware of traffic to the rear of the vehicle.

But the 1978 Regs were far more substantial, here's just part of the content on Mirrors...
I wonder why the Ford Transit got it's own mention...
.

Mirrors.JPG (158.03 KiB) Viewed 42259 times

[GaryL]

Which mirrors have you bought?

Sorry for the slow reply.

I bought these 'Arms' from ESM . . .

All of the cars I saw at the club meet, that had door mirrors, had a similar style.

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[svenedin]

Which mirrors have you bought?

Sorry for the slow reply.

I bought these 'Arms' from ESM . . .

All of the cars I saw at the club meet, that had door mirrors, had a similar style.

Mirror Arm.jpg

That is an arm for a wing mirror not a door mirror. In fact that is a spring back type wing mirror arm. Sometimes these are called "boomerang" mirrors after Desmo called these mirrors Boomerang. They spring back so that the arm isn't ripped off the car with a minor prang on the mirror.

If you want a door mirror that mounts with a single bolt (Lucas style) then use one of these: https://www.morrisminorspares.com/misce ... 35-p831178

Or there is a more modern type that mounts with 2x screws: https://www.morrisminorspares.com/misce ... ex-p831213

Note that some of the door mirrors are handed left and right.

Clip on types and clamp on types are also available. Some of these block opening the quarter light so are annoying.

Stephen

[GaryL]

Hi Stephen

Thank you so much.

That is exactly the info I needed.

I'll send my WING mirrors back and order the correct DOOR ones.

One further question - With the single bolt 'Lucas' type - What does it bolt to? Do I need to drill the cover plate, and then bend it to get it back on the door. The plate is only thin metal, and I doubt that it would be very stable!

[GaryL]

It is OK.

I just found this thread . . .

viewtopic.php?t=58186

[Bill_qaz]

You can just remove the triangular trim, then drill and fit the mirror.Put the flat washer behind before the nut to spread the load and stiffen.
There enough flex in the trim piece to spread it slightly and put it back in position,then refit the fixing screws.With just the outer face drilled it cannot be seen inside the car. The union jack is covering the fixing holes were previously someone drilled the door and fitted a mirror

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[bobtail4x4]

I have a triangular trim with central hole drilled (in error) through,
only needed outer bit drilling for my door mirror,
free to good home, for price of post couple of quid,

[serowman]

Remember when Apprentice at Morris Agents fitting wing mirrors,we never had a drill of correct size and so had to file out hole to fit.I once pulled file out to far and scratched wing, a few well chosen words from Foreman,but it changed things,a punch kit was aquired of the correct size and then we just had to drill a pilot hole.

[Nickol]

I have fitted these door mirrors which on the drivers side ( in my case the LHS) are very good for seeing behind you. On the passenger side however, you cannot see very much as the arm is too short - The glass divider obstructs. I have seen a minor with an extra long arm but have no idea who supplies such an item.

[Bill_qaz]

I have fitted these door mirrors which on the drivers side ( in my case the LHS) are very good for seeing behind you. On the passenger side however, you cannot see very much as the arm is too short - The glass divider obstructs. I have seen a minor with an extra long arm but have no idea who supplies such an item.

If you remove the three screws, you can rotate the plate and position the slot to allow the mirror head to tilt in further. I had to do this on passenger side mirror (left for me) to give better view.

20251009_145420.jpg (22.2 KiB) Viewed 41941 times

[don58van]

If you remove the three screws, you can rotate the plate and position the slot to allow the mirror head to tilt in further.

I think there must be a fair bit of variation in the ball and socket of this style of mirror. Some owners have no problem getting a good passenger-side view. But my passenger side one would not rotate anywhere near enough to get a good view.

I did the same as Bill_qaz to get the view somewhere near correct on the passenger side. But I found that I had to go further: I made a resin wedge that is fitted under the base of the arm. It is the same shape as the contact area of the base so that it looks like it belongs there.

Don

[Bill_qaz]

Also seating position, my adjustable standard seat is fully back.
The spacer is a good idea

[Nickol]

I have fitted these door mirrors which on the drivers side ( in my case the LHS) are very good for seeing behind you. On the passenger side however, you cannot see very much as the arm is too short - The glass divider obstructs. I have seen a minor with an extra long arm but have no idea who supplies such an item.

If you remove the three screws, you can rotate the plate and position the slot to allow the mirror head to tilt in further. I had to do this on passenger side mirror (left for me) to give better view.
20251009_145420.jpg

That is an idea - will give it a go.