Superflex Bushes ESM

[svenedin]

Whilst searching for something completely different, I noticed that ESM are now stocking Superflex bushes including the tie bar bushes that have the correct locating projection on the front. Expensive but they are the best. Annoyingly the tie bar bushes are only in sets of 4 and my experience has been that it is not possible to fit 2 polyurethane bushes per side. It only worked for me with a rubber bush behind and a polyurethane bush in front.

Stephen

https://www.morrisminorspares.com/search/superflex

[philthehill]

As regards poly bushes - The bushes used in the Minor spring eyes (except commercial models) and the eye bolt are one and the same bush even though they may be listed under different part numbers.
The variances in the outer face of the spring and eye bolt bushes are not required.
The same applies to the rubber bush versions.
Even if you managed to fit two poly bushes to the front of the tie bar there will be insufficient flexibility in the bushes to allow for the correct articulation of the tie rod. As stated above - rubber bush behind the tie bar bracket and a poly bush in front of the tie bar bracket.

[myoldjalopy]

"Even if you managed to fit two poly bushes to the front of the tie bar there will be insufficient flexibility in the bushes to allow for the correct articulation of the tie rod."
What would be the consequences of that be, Phil?

[philthehill]

The consequences would be the possible detachment of the tie bar bracket from the main chassis rail.
There does need to be sufficient allowed movement of the tie rod to move in an arc without putting undue stress on the spot welds holding the tie bar bracket in place.
If there is any corrosion in and around the tie bar bracket to the main chassis rail any restriction in movement will eventually tear the tie bar bracket from the main chassis rail.
Because of the above and requiring a positive front location of the tie bar I have elected to delete the rubber/poly bushes and fit a rose joint instead.

[ndevans]

Because of the above and requiring a positive front location of the tie bar I have elected to delete the rubber/poly bushes and fit a rose joint instead.

Can you post a photo please Phil?

[philthehill]

Tie bar front mount.jpg (34.15 KiB) Viewed 15739 times

[myoldjalopy]

The consequences would be the possible detachment of the tie bar bracket from the main chassis rail.
There does need to be sufficient allowed movement of the tie rod to move in an arc without putting undue stress on the spot welds holding the tie bar bracket in place.
If there is any corrosion in and around the tie bar bracket to the main chassis rail any restriction in movement will eventually tear the tie bar bracket from the main chassis rail.

Thanks Phil, something to avoid then!

[philthehill]

Only avoid putting two poly bushes on the tie bar.

[ndevans]

Tie bar front mount.jpg

Looks good, is that an adjustable tie-bar? Is the rose joint available as a part from suppliers?

Thanks,Neil

[philthehill]

The tie bar is adjustable.
The conversion as fitted is not available from suppliers.
It is a philthehill conversion of a classic Mini rose jointed tie bar.
You have to machine a stepped washer to fit into the front face of the tie bar bracket after removing the two cups welded either side of the tie bar bracket.
The original Minor 1/2" dia bar is threaded 1/2" UNF at the front to fit into the 1/2" female rose joint.
My later modified tie bars have a R/H & L/H adjusting sleeve in the middle of the tie rod so that you do not have to disconnect the tie bar to adjust.

adjustable tie rod.jpg (566.77 KiB) Viewed 15268 times

[ndevans]

I see, and the stepped washer fits in the original tie-bar bracket and locates the bolt on the end of the bracket for the adjustable tie bar?
Presumably the washer is 1/2" inner dia?

[philthehill]

The machined to suit stepped washer fits into the tie bar bracket from the front and the 'U' bracket to the rear. The stepped washer and the 'U' bracket are then clamped hard against either side of the tie bar bracket by tightening the 'U' bracket bolt. I have used Loctite Bearing Loc to make sure that the stepped washer does not move in the tie bar bracket.
If I remember correctly I machined to suit the stepped washer off the rear end of a Minor torsion bar. That washer has a 1/2" internal dia hole.
The rose joint and adjustable tie bar has been used successfully in many track speed events on tarmac without any problems arising.
I do not know how the tie bar bracket would face up to being used on a rough surface with the rose joint fitted. My preference/advice is to only use the rose joint on smooth tarmac surfaces.
https://www.minispares.com/c-ajj3365-ti ... inted-pair

[ndevans]

I was going to ask how it copes with the reduced compliance/resilience between the tie-rod & the chassis leg. I guess for normal road use this set up isn't really necessary, and may be harmful on rough roads.
Could you do it the other way round, fit the rose joint between tie-rod & lower wishbone, and retain poly/rubber bushes in the chassis mounting?

[philthehill]

You could but IMHO it would achieve little.

[ndevans]

Both tie bar bushes on each side were blue poly bushes, so I replaced the rear ones with rubber bushes. It does feel a little more supple now, and doesn't knock so much on hitting bumps.

Is there a correct amount to wind on the castle nuts on the tie bars? I've done mine so the split pin hole is exposed and then 1 turn more each side.

[philthehill]

The castellated nut should be done up so that the front cup washer is hard up against the shoulder of the tie bar.

[PhilAllen]

Sorry to steal someone else’s thread but I think this is at least partly relevant so I thought it might be better to keep it one place.
I noticed a shudder through the steering wheel when braking from higher speed (over 50mph, braking feels normal below that). It reminded of the Mk1 Fiesta I owned years ago when it had warped discs but my Minor is standard drums. I’ve had a good look round and the only thing I noticed that wasn’t normal was the tie bar rubber bushes (on the back, I had poly at the front) were perished and cracked. I decided to try a set of the Superflex ones in the hope they would last longer than the modern rubber, intending to put them at the back only.
When they arrived I found they were a little narrower than either poly or rubber and also felt quite flexible in as much as I could compress them more by hand than either the poly or rubber ones. As Superflex has a good reputation I decided to try fitting them both front and back of the tie bar in the hope they would fix the shudder, give a better ride and last a long time. A short drive reveals more of a clonk from the suspension when going over bumps and looking at them I’m not sure they’re compressed enough. What is the opinion of the wise people on here please? I can’t tighten the nuts up any more as they’re as far as I can go and still have the split pin engage in the castle. If they do need compressing more is it acceptable to fit a washer under the nut?
I didn’t like the clonk so I’ve not gone fast enough to check if the brake problem is still there!

[PhilAllen]

Sorry, forgot the photos!

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[philthehill]

The tie rod front nut should be done up tight.
Fitting an additional washer between the nut and the cup washer is acceptable if it means that the castellation's can be properly engaged.
For consideration:-
The Morris Marina/Ital tie bar was much improved by having a fixed rear washer (cup) and 1 7/16" length shoulder (which equates to the unthreaded section at the front of the Minor tie bar) of 1/2" diameter which the front washer (cup) should be done up tight against. The self locking nut is additionally retained by a 'R' clip loosely fitted in front of the nut.
The Marina/Ital tie bar is the same length as the Minor tie bar and I can see no reason that the Marina/Ital tie bar cannot be used on the Minor.
Having checked the Marina/Ital tie bar fit in a NOS Minor tie bar bracket there is sufficient clearance between the Marina/Ital tie bar and the Minor tie bar bracket and cups to allow for full articulation of the tie rod.

[PhilAllen]

Thanks for the advice. I’ve not been able to take a look till the weekend as we’ve got the grandchildren during the week as it’s school holidays. I’d get very enthusiastic help, but it’s not really the kind of help that I need!

Anyway, over the weekend I’ve tried adding a washer to pull the nut up tighter. That made things better, but there was still steering shake above 50. As the Superflex bushes are smaller than the others (photo below) I had I decided to put the poly bush back as well as the washer. The result is a further improvement but there is still a slight steering shake when braking until the speed gets down to 50. Should they be pulled up tighter still? It is much better than before but it didn’t used to do this and I’d like to get back to that point!

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