Timken front bearing sets

[svenedin]

I know bearings have been discussed ad nauseam but ESM have very recently started selling Timken bearing pairs for the front hubs.

I recently had the hubs off and I replaced both bearings on both sides. The reason for replacing the bearings was that one set ran badly and were worn out and the other set had free play. The worn set were BMC originals and the free play set were "Powertune" branded.

I fitted brand new sets of Powertune branded bearings to both hubs. The result, the side that had free play went to no play and the side that didn't have any free play did have free play (the hubs were not swapped side to side). Grrrr.

So I looked on the ESM site and saw they had Timken bearings in stock. More expensive but these are quality bearings. I fitted pairs either side and hey presto, no free play whatsoever. Hurray!

The only thing that might confuse with the Timken bearings is that the outer race is marked thrust on one side and the inner race is marked thrust on the other! ESM make clear that the side with the thicker ring on the OUTER race should face the inside of the hub. So, with these bearings the OUTER ring marked "Thrust" faces the inside of the hub.


Stephen


These bearing sets resulted in free play. Very little but free play all the same

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These bearings were perfect. No free play whatsoever.


Note the thicker side of the OUTER ring marked "Thrust" faces the inside of the hub.

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Thick side of outer ring. Outer ring marked "Thrust". This side faces the inside of the hub.

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Thin side of outer ring

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[svenedin]

Rings from old bearings make ideal tools for tapping in new bearings. This is all these "Powertune" bearing are good for!!! Apparently they are made in Taiwan but there is no indication of country of manufacture on the box.

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[les]

I bought some Powertune Hardy spicer joints, very disappointing.

[philthehill]

The length of bearing spacer situated between the inner and outer bearings can have a effect on bearing clearance which can result in play at the wheel rim.
Not all bearing spacers are the same length and sometimes a light skim on the end of the spacer can remove that play without effecting the bearing preload. If you have spare bearing spacers swopping the spacers around may eliminate any play.

[svenedin]

The length of bearing spacer situated between the inner and outer bearings can have a effect on bearing clearance which can result in play at the wheel rim.
Not all bearing spacers are the same length and sometimes a light skim on the end of the spacer can remove that play without effecting the bearing preload. If you have spare bearing spacers swopping the spacers around may eliminate any play.

Thank you for the tip as always Phil. I do have 2x spare spacers.......I will know next time!

Stephen

[svenedin]

I bought some Powertune Hardy spicer joints, very disappointing.

Yes. The Timken bearings just seem so much better even just by holding them and looking at them. The fact that have zero free play when fitted also inspires confidence. Unfortunately, they do have nylon bearing cages and not brass as the originals had but unless you pay about £120 per side for brass cage original bearings this is what there is in the good quality but affordable bracket.

Stephen

[Mervin]

"I bought some Powertune Hardy spicer joints, very disappointing."
Sorry being pedantic Les, they weren't Hardy Spicer but cheap Chinesium. I once tried using Powertune universal joints in a Minor propshaft and I suspect their dimensions were wrong. Yes, they were from ESM. Far too tight when the circlips were fitted, too much preload. I think there were other issues too, can't remember though. I could have tried other thinner circlips but didn't want the hassle of that, or even shaving some off the provided clips.
I did source some genuine Hardy Spicer joints and they fitted perfectly.

[philthehill]

If the joint is tight - hitting the yoke which pushes the needle bearing cup back against the circlip usually frees the joint.

[Mervin]

"If the joint is tight - hitting the yoke which pushes the needle bearing cup back against the circlip usually frees the joint."
Yes, I am aware of that Phil. Unfortunately not a solution using those Powertune u.j.s I tried.
I compared the measurements to genuine Hardy Spicers and there was a discrepancy, the Powertune's were too "long" from one cup face to it's opposite.
I had similar issues with an aftermarket duplex timing chain kit, last year. The cam sprocket bore was too small, as was the crank
sprocket to a lesser degree. I fitted a single timing chain using n.o.s. parts (not the chain) which fitted perfectly.

[les]

I did try hitting the yoke and achieved a degree of success, I also had a few thou taken off a circlip. I was just using a generic term regarding these joints. I will buy genuine in the future, in fact I might look out for another prop and rebuild it.

[Nickol]

If I may be permitted to latch on to this thread with a question?

I have very slight play on the left from wheel of my 69 Traveller. The right side nothing at all.

I have read that a small amount of play is acceptable/normal/ correct - depending on what word is used, but is this true? I ask becaue the bi annual test is due this month and from experience, this is one of their favourite faults. I see no evidence of unusual tire wear.

[philthehill]

The standard Morris Minor ball race should have no play.
Acceptable/Normal/correct are words that should not be used as regards play in a Morris Minor front wheel bearing. If there is play then it should be corrected to give nil play.
The length of the spacer determines the bearing preload (sic)/play. Reducing the length of the spacer will remove any play. Care should be taken when reducing the length of the spacer as removing too much metal will result in too much preload (sic).

[Nickol]

Corrected to give no play....? I can try to tighten the castellated nut ?

Does not play indicate worn bearings? I am starting to get a bit confused.

[philthehill]

The castellated front hub nut should be only tightened to 5.5kg. m. to give the correct preload on the hub bearings.
"Corrected to give nil play" - that could mean new bearings or as may be the case the production tolerances in the hub, the bearings and bearing spacer add up to give play. I do not have a specific factory bearing spacer length but those spacers I do have are not all the same length and vary by several thousands of an inch. All I can suggest is that you check the bearings for roughness and if there is no roughness swop the bearing spacer(s) and see how you get on. Sometimes swopping the bearing spacers from side to side cures the problem. I have given spare bearing spacers to members with bearing play and upon switching the spacers the play has been eradicated.
All you can do is as they say in the trade 'suck it and see'.
Phil

[Nickol]

Many many thanks for the info - I will try to work something out. Probably order and renew the bearings with a distance piece and see what happens.

[Mervin]

I was confused re kg m Phil having never used them for torque tightening with kg being a unit of mass. I just had to look up the conversion.
I found 54Nm.

[philthehill]

Mervin
I put the torque setting kg m as the OP is in Germany and that is how it is set out in the BMC wksp manual.
I good old English it is 35 to 40 lb ft.
Phil

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[Nickol]

What a wonderfully clear x section you posted Phil. You really are so helpful.

We do use Nm here as a rule .

[philthehill]

The praise should be heaped on islipminor as the drawing came originally from him and I have kept it on file for reference.