Headlight bezels

[michael4]

Hints for reassembly is what I am after.

This is obviously a well worn topic. I've read all the posts I can find and appreciate the knowledge therein but what I have not found is an obvious solution to getting the things back on again.

I have a late car with sealed beam lights, metal 'bowls' and a rubber seal twixt them and the wings. For the life of me I cannot get the bezels to sit nicely, rather they seem to hang on by the skin of their teeth. It is as if they are too small?

What have others done? grind a way a bit of bezel? Grind away a bit of bowl edge? Cut back the rubber seal? None of these seem like an obvious solution.

I really don't want to go down the route of replacing the everything and hope someone can offer a solution.

Thanks in advance

[ManyMinors]

They shouldn't be any trouble at all - as long as everything is as original and lines up. It sounds as if maybe one part isn't compatible with another? Maybe one or more components has been replaced with a reproduction part? You should in theory be able to fit the outer rim over the two pressed ribs at the top of the metal bowl whilst making sure that the fixing hole at the bottom aligns with the speednut within the bowl , then push the rim downwards as much as possible and then push it over the inner sealed beam retaining rim so that it is a tight fit against the rubber gasket at the back. Lastly, you check the position and screw the self tapping retaining screw into the speednut to secure the rim. Like so many little jobs on cars - you just need to read the owners handbook - and if you don't have one - then get hold of one. They are small, were given out with every new Morris Minor, and contain a large proportion of the information you'll ever need!

[geoberni]

I used to have a lot of problems fitting mine together.
It was doable but a PITA taking a lot of jiggling around. I had one Metal Bowl, one Plastic, one with a large 'inner bowl' one with just a clamp around the lamp unit. These 2 different styles resulted in one lamp sitting a few mm further forward than the other.
Not only that, the Bowls had been pop riveted in instead of using screws/bolts into the captive nuts. These photos from 2019 when I was replacing the Halogen with LED Headlamps.
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So Jan 2024, I replaced both bowl assemblies. I found the pop-rivets had probably been used because the anchor nut were damaged, or perhaps the rivets were the cause of the damage....
However, I found that an M6 bolt fitted nicely, effectively re-forming the threads. So new Bowls fitted with M6 Torx head bolts to ensure a nice low profile. So not for the purist, but they can't be seen.
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Everything is a doddle to put together now.

As a footnote, personally I'd ditch the sealed beam units, unless you're looking for Concours.
Why pay around £13 a headlamp bulb?
Sealed beam were an invention of the US Motor Trade pre-WWII because drivers/owners were replacing bulbs in Rusty headlamps that had tarnished or non existent reflectors. They were mandated for headlamps in the USA from 1940-ish to the mid 1980s. They slowly started getting fitted by some European manufacturers in the late 70s, probably just for ease of production, but they equally soon faded into obscurity as halogen lamps became popular.

[myoldjalopy]

Sealed beams were all the rage back in the 70's/80's!

[michael4]

Thanks for the info. I think my problem is that the rubber seal or gasket is too thick and is preventing the bezel from going down far enough when fitting. Alternatively the edge of the bezel, which is folded over, is too bulky.

(I've seen this method of fixing on other cars but can't for the life of me remember which...6/80 perhaps or Mk II Jag?)

I will ponder awhile before attacking it with renewed enthusiasm.

[geoberni]

Sealed beams were all the rage back in the 70's/80's!

Only certain manufacturers/models from my experience.
My first car in the early 70s was a 1969 Ford Escort. That didn't have them. With experience of several makes/models over the following 40 years, including, Ford, Vauxhall, Datsun/Nissan, the first vehicle I (or a member of my immediate family) actually had with sealed beams was when I moved to the USA in 2007. I had an early 1980s Chevy Pickup with them. It was the US version of the Isuzu faster, marketed in the UK as the Bedford KB.

[svenedin]

My 69 Minor had always had sealed beams but even back in 1989 when I first got the car I thought it was very wasteful to throw the whole unit away just for a blown bulb. It's also a heavy and bulky thing to carry as a spare (which is a legal requirement in some countries). I now have Lucas bulb housings/reflectors and H4 halogen bulbs. Essentially it is exactly the same as a sealed beam, with the same connector but the bulb can be replaced. An un-sealed beam!

Stephen

[myoldjalopy]

Getting back to the OP's problem - he says "I think my problem is that the rubber seal or gasket is too thick and is preventing the bezel from going down far enough when fitting."
Now I recall I had a similar problem about 10 years ago, but only one one side. In the end, I just left the rubber gasket off the 'problem side'.

[michael4]

Yes, this is part of the problem and the result is that the light unit appears to sit too low in the bezel making things difficult.

Of course the light unit itself might be fitted too low in the bowl. Hmmm.

It is too cold out there, I will return to the problem when it warms up. The bezels are on but they really don't look too good!

[geoberni]

Yes, this is part of the problem and the result is that the light unit appears to sit too low in the bezel making things difficult.

Of course the light unit itself might be fitted too low in the bowl. Hmmm.

It is too cold out there, I will return to the problem when it warms up. The bezels are on but they really don't look too good!

You may have a mismatch of different manufacturer's aftermarket spare parts and the factory items.

[myoldjalopy]

Its possible. But I don't know why I had a problem on one side only when I got all the parts from ESM. And I have to say that I bought two lock washers for the front suspension from ESM more recently and one fitted perfectly on the upper link pin and the other not at all!

[michael4]

If I had any sense I should have tried to fit the bezel without the light unit in place. If it fits without the light then I could assume that the plastic mount that holds the light unit is incorrectly positioned on the bowl either in assembly or non matching parts.

On the assumption that my nomenclature is incorrect I mean that part marked '20' in the diagram which I have called 'plastic mount' does not sit correctly on part '16' which I have called 'bowl'.

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[geoberni]

Now you've confused me...
Part 20 in plastic?

If you look back at my photos posted previously, I had a 20 in one of my lamps.
It was Aluminium and held in place by the spring that the drawing shows in the front of part 16...
20 and 21 clamp together around the lamp reflector, or sealed beam.
I think you're either putting it all together incorrectly or there's some other problem.
I've still got my old one up the garage...

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Although now sold separately, originally it was always part of the chrome lamp mounting 28 or 46 above, 14 being the basic mounting plate.
ESM list them, but not in plastic...
https://www.morrisminorspares.com/elect ... it-p829791

[myoldjalopy]

Now I'm confused as well! I thought by 'rubber seal' the OP meant the dust seal behind the outer rim or bezel, number 10 in this diagram: https://www.angloparts.com/en/spare-par ... assemblies
That is the part that gave me trouble on one side so I just left it out in the end......

[michael4]

Well, I've confused myself as well as everybody else. Apologies.

MyoldJalopy,
The seal I mentioned is between the 'bucket' and the wing of the car. Probably more like a gasket. The seal you mention is absent.
Now I don't think this is the problem

Geoberni
Yes, 20 in the diagram I posted, in plastic unless I have gone bonkers.

I have changed my mind regarding the problem. Basically I suspect that the light is not sitting in the right place, it is too low. This is something to do with the location of 20

Will take some pics shortly.

[geoberni]

Now I'm confused as well! I thought by 'rubber seal' the OP meant the dust seal behind the outer rim or bezel, number 10 in this diagram: https://www.angloparts.com/en/spare-par ... assemblies
That is the part that gave me trouble on one side so I just left it out in the end......

I've never seen that dust seal before.. ...I just look at the several pages of headlights in the AKD 3541 and there is such an item on some of the many headlamp variants ... Part 3H 2962 'Excluder-Dust', or another one is 57H 5497 'Gasket - Rubber'.
Very odd; I gave up trying to work out which particular headlamp variants they were...

[michael4]

Sorted.

Forget everything I have suggested.

The headlight holder is indeed plastic, see picture. I have no idea where they came from but it is a very late car that has been on the receiving end of a lot of enthusiastic somewhat unskilled attention during its life.

I tried a dry run at fitting the bezel without the light unit. It didn't fit. The bezel is too small and does not fit over the rim of the bucket all the way round.

By knocking the bucket's rim inwards all the way round with a trusty cold chisel it now fits and looks much better. I could go further and improve the fit yet more but I am conscious that I am hammering away at the extremities of an elderly car...

I'm happy for now, thanks for your help!

[geoberni]

Looks to me that you have some sort of aftermarket, motor factor part which is not 100% a 'fit/form/function' match to the original.
The 7" Round lamp was on a great number of cars over the decades, practically the universal go-to lamp in the designer's 'book of parts'.

Glad you've got a workable result.

[myoldjalopy]

Yes, probably some sort of 'universal' fitting but glad its now sorted.
As for a "car that has been on the receiving end of a lot of enthusiastic somewhat unskilled attention during its life", I would imagine that that applies to many, if not most, Minors - particularly those that have now gone to the old scrap heap in the sky (RIP)