Engine losing Power

[gucu]

Hi All
I hope you're surviving this cold spell.
When I was last driving my car it started losing all power to the extent where I had to empty the car of all passengers and get a push to get up hill. I managed to get it home and it now refuses to start. My local garage said they would have a look but as they are very busy they haven't been able to take the car in for 3 weeks.
The car drove 3000 miles in 15 years of ownership by the previous owner. It 6 weeks of ownership we did over 1000 miles.
The garage think a careful look over to get the car up and running and that back to doing a rolling restoration. I am wondering whether I might be better off simply doing an engine rebuild. i.e. Timing chain, head skim and gasket, etc... I can take a look at other elements as I do these.
What would you do please?
Thanks
Rich

[ManyMinors]

I wouldn't go to the trouble and expense of an engine rebuild unless it was actually required. It could be simply that the fuel has gone off if you haven't used the car recently. Otherwise it is probably just an ignition issue or a fuel supply issue? Check that fresh fuel is reaching the carburettor and then check for a spark at the plugs?
Morris Minors are simple, straightforward cars and problems are usually not very involved. If you have to purchase new parts, buy the better quality ones from recommended suppliers. There is a lot of cheap imported rubbish on sale now

[svenedin]

It's a little bit vague "losing power". Did the engine sound rough? Was it hesitating or misfiring? Did it come close to stalling?

I wouldn't worry too much. It's probably something quite simple. As a Minor owner you will have to get used to diagnosing basic faults.

Check for fuel and spark. If no spark (my suspicion) then at a guess, it is the condenser at fault. Or is it's no fuel then probably the points of the fuel pump just need a clean.

Stephen

[myoldjalopy]

Agree with the two posts above - no point in re-building the engine if you don't yet know what the issue is. It probably is something quite simple. Ran out of fuel, perhaps? That has happened before to people - including me! Certainly check for fuel and spark first.

[simmitc]

Were there any strange loud noises? If yes, then check compression in case the head gasket has blown. A gauge is ideal, but simple check: remove all spark plugs (note which leads go where). Place thumb over hole for number 1 cylinder. Using the starting handle, turn the engine. Can you feel compression building under your thumb. Repeat for other cylinders. Hopefully all feel about the same. If no compression then that's the problem.

With ignition on, does the fuel pump click rapidly and then stop? (normal).

When you were pushing the car, did it feel normal - no brakes binding on?

How experienced are you with maintenance tasks? We can tailor advice depending on your experience.

Is it a standard car, or are there any modifications?

As above, can you be a bit more explicit about the symptoms and how they developed?

Good news: It's a Minor, we can fix it

[oliver90owner]

The last time I needed to vacate a car, in order for it to get up a hill, was in 1967. Three of us disembarked and walked, while my Aunt drove the Fiat 500 up a very steep incline in the Mendips.

Simmitc is on the money on this one. I suspect a head gasket failure but diagnosis first and then repair the isolated fault thereafter.

Use of the starting handle can often reveal a blown head gasket - likely one or two cylinders (usually adjacent) would show little or no compression.

If the engine can be started, removal of each plug lead, in turn, can be informative (obviously not in this case, if it won’t run).

Without a more precise description of the failure, it is simply a guess on the part of all and every poster! Many may make suggestions or claims but that is plainly not good enough.

A spark ignition engine requires fuel, air, compression and a spark to operate properly. Fuel and air need to be in the correct ratio, and with good compression plus a good spark at the precise time.

[gucu]

Hi All

Thank you so much for all the comments and help. I bought the car hoping to do a running restoration and get it to a point where I can do annual maintenance, I never expected to have to reach back 25 years when I last owned a Moggie!

Firstly, there was no specific noises, simply a complete loss of power. There was white stuff dripping from the exhaust.
Secondly, I had already fitted electronic ignition which helps. Now when I turn the engine over it feels like it wants to fire, it catches and then stalls.

Today, I will remove the petrol pipe and check on fuel and also listen for the pumping sound. I will also see if we are getting a spark and if possible borrow a compression tester from my garage.

I'll let you know how I get on.

Rich

[simmitc]

From that, also check to see if the distributor has come loose and moved round. Good quality electronic units from the Distributor Doctor are OK, but with others it is often easier to diagnose and fix problems with the original points system.

[Mervin]

"The last time I needed to vacate a car, in order for it to get up a hill, was in 1967. Three of us disembarked and walked, while my Aunt drove the Fiat 500 up a very steep incline in the Mendips."
Sorry to go off topic, but a similar thing happened, early 1960's. Four of us were touring Scotland, mainly the Highlands, in an Austin A30. Started driving up a very steep and long hill - car said no, no chance. Three exited the car and had to help get it moving again. That was a long walk to the top!

[svenedin]

"The last time I needed to vacate a car, in order for it to get up a hill, was in 1967. Three of us disembarked and walked, while my Aunt drove the Fiat 500 up a very steep incline in the Mendips."
Sorry to go off topic, but a similar thing happened, early 1960's. Four of us were touring Scotland, mainly the Highlands, in an Austin A30. Started driving up a very steep and long hill - car said no, no chance. Three exited the car and had to help get it moving again. That was a long walk to the top!

Same thing happened to me when I was 17 and still at school. Driving the Morris (the same one) up Gypsy Hill in South London with 5 big rugby playing lads in the car. No chance!! (it was a slipping clutch).

Stephen

[myoldjalopy]

Never had to do that in a Morris - but I did in Goa, when the tuc-tuc refused to go up a hill with a gang of us on board!

[gucu]

I had a long and was only able to do a few checks.
1. The car is getting petrol and the pump is working.
2. It is firing but not staying running.
3. It let out a big back fire with a nasty smell afterwards.
4. Spark plugs are all new along with cables and the electronic ignition. I haven't been able to check this out yet.

I'll keep going this week hopefully.

Rich

[mowogg]

Is your timing out? I notice in your thread you say it has electronic ignition. Was this a recent fit? I had to adjust the timing quite a lot when if fitted a kit

[gucu]

It could be. I fitted the kit before Christmas and have been running it with no issues for over a month.

[simmitc]

I refer to my earlier suggestion to check that the dizzy has not become loose and slipped. Failing that, have you done the compression test? If not other causes, a backfire usually indicates a weak mixture, so it could be a blocked jet.

[myoldjalopy]

Strange that it has been running "with no issues for over a month" - and now this. Nothing else been tinkered during this period?
Yes to compression test. Also, worth taking the rocker cover off and checking all the valves are operating correctly by turning on the handle, and that the clearances are correct.

[svenedin]

If electronic ignition was installed a month ago and all was well but now there are problems I would suspect a bad electrical connection somewhere. If by chance, it is electronic ignition on a positive earth vehicle, the modules are very fussy about the quality of the earth connection. Find the instructions for the system fitted and go through the process again checking everything is correct. There are too many different systems to be specific but for the Hall effect type, sometimes the magnet ring is not properly seated on the distributor shaft and it then gets shifted or damaged. Take the rotor off and check. Or, sometimes one of the wires going to the module has not been secured and has been damaged. Just some ideas.....

Stephen

[gucu]

Hi All

And finally a catch up....

Head gasket gone and quite probably piston rings.... Diagnosed by a local garage. I got the car started with plumes of white smoke out the back. I drove it to the garage with barely any power and a quick check from the garage and although they will strip the engine to confirm they will certainly be doing the head.

Thanks for the help. It was a long journey but I got there.

Rich

[simmitc]

Let's hope that by driving it with a blown gasket, you have not also damaged the block as well as the head - a lot more work to strip, skim and then rebuild the block. Ideally you would have checked the compression as I detailed previously rather than driving the car. Fingers crossed that it is only the gasket and head, and nothing to do with block or rings.

[gucu]

Oops I didn't realise that. I figured the garage was the best place to do more complex diagnosis and it is only 5 minutes drive away. Here's hoping and thanks for your help. I didn't ignore it, I just didn't fully understand.